Author Topic: what the hell, Iraqi Sovereignty thing moved to today!  (Read 3424 times)

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Offline Tiara

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US hands over sovereignty in Iraq 2 days early (Iraq is now a sovereign nation, etc.)
No, duh. But it's a step in that direction. It was never meant to give full and total contol back to the Iraqis as it would just degenerate back into the old scenario :p
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Offline pyro-manic

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US hands over sovereignty in Iraq 2 days early (Iraq is now a sovereign nation, etc.)
Good news in principle, but I think that the temporary government will have trouble keeping control until the elections next year. It's going to be very tricky to make this work, particularly as the Americans will still be seen to be running things (no matter how true or false this is).

Here's hoping things stablise quickly. :)
Any fool can pull a trigger...

 

Offline Bobboau

  • Just a MODern kinda guy
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US hands over sovereignty in Iraq 2 days early (Iraq is now a sovereign nation, etc.)
don't most of he people like the interim guy?

wasn't it said that the interim govt. would have at the least veto authoraty over our military operations?
wasn't it said that if they asked us to leave we would?

not saying you'r entierly baseless, but maybe it's not as bad as you are assumeing.
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Offline Rictor

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US hands over sovereignty in Iraq 2 days early (Iraq is now a sovereign nation, etc.)
Ah. The "protector" excuse. But the problem is, as far as I can see, this isn't a step at all. The US gives up 1% control and 100% responsibility. Its just misdirection. For one thing, all the people currently in power are mouthpieces. If they werent't they would side with the 98% of the the Iraqis (who they are supposedly representing) and demand that US troops leave. Until that happens, Iraq is still under occupation, and until free (and FAIR!) elections are held, a puppet government is still power.

Bremer of Alawi, its all the same really.

 

Offline Rictor

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US hands over sovereignty in Iraq 2 days early (Iraq is now a sovereign nation, etc.)
Bob:

1. Iyad Alawi has been living in exile for years and years. No, he could not be said to have the support of the Iraqi people, at least so far as I know. He's a former Baathist, member of the hated IGC and founder of the Iraqi National Accord, the Chalabi-like outfit which fed fake "evidence" to British intelligence during the run-up to the war.

2. During the past few months, there have been 100s of different stories floating around. Rumsfeld says on thing, Powell says another, Bremer says another, then Powell changes his story, some government official says another thing, a press release says a third thing, then Powell changes his story again etc etc.

From what I can figure, it has finally been decided that the Iraqi "government" will not have any say in US military operations.

3. I doubt that 150,000 US troops would just up and leave because the Iraqis said so, taking their permanent bases with them. But thats a theoretical scenario only. Alawi has about as much chance of asking US troops to leave as Bremer did. If the fact that 98% of Iraqis want US troops is not a clear enough message, I don't know what it. Its not like the desires of the Iraqi people is unclear.

____

It just that the whole "full sovereignty" thing pisses me off. Full means complete, 100%, but its obvious even to the most devout Bush supporters that its not even close to that. Sort of like the "end of the war" that Bush declared on the aircraft carrier. Its just words, they're not backed up by reality.

edit: Allawi on Wikipedia.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2004, 12:44:36 pm by 644 »

 

Offline ionia23

  • 26
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US hands over sovereignty in Iraq 2 days early (Iraq is now a sovereign nation, etc.)
As you can see, you cannot satisfy everyone.
"Why does it want me to say my name?"

 

Offline Flipside

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US hands over sovereignty in Iraq 2 days early (Iraq is now a sovereign nation, etc.)
Well, look at Japan, the Americans promised they would leave ages ago, and yet quite blatantly refuse to do so, that still irks me :(

While there is much conjecture on the current Iraqi government, at least what power Bush has chosen to hand over has landed in the Hands of Iraqis...no, wait, hang on, wasn't that how Saddam got into power in the first place?

 

Offline Rictor

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US hands over sovereignty in Iraq 2 days early (Iraq is now a sovereign nation, etc.)
ionia: no, obviously not. A word doesn't do it for me. Virtually nothing has changed, there is just an added layer of bearucracy now. Instead of the American issuing orders directly, they tell their the Iraqis to issue to the orders. Notice how the new government is made up mostly of exiles.

With freedom of action comes responsibility. No freedom, no responsibility. What Bush is attempting to do is give the Iraqis all the responsibility, but none of the freedom.

Thats like telling a prisoner "you are free, but your circumstances will stay exactly the same. but remember, you are free. No, you can't leave. But you are free". Sovereignty means **** all if the Americans are still calling all the shots, which they are.

 

Offline Flipside

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US hands over sovereignty in Iraq 2 days early (Iraq is now a sovereign nation, etc.)
On a sort of side-note :-

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=574&ncid=574&e=2&u=/nm/20040628/wl_nm/nato_summit_bush_blair_dc_1

Tony, sorry mate but your balls are too small, and your popularity too low, it's not going to work ;)

 

Offline Rictor

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US hands over sovereignty in Iraq 2 days early (Iraq is now a sovereign nation, etc.)
From the horse's mouth, CPA spokesman General Mark Kimmit

"I don't think that July 1st is particularly significant on the part of the coalition military operations, with the exception we will now be known as the multinational forces."

 

Offline Corsair

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US hands over sovereignty in Iraq 2 days early (Iraq is now a sovereign nation, etc.)
I'm sorta wondering why this was done...because I don't believe the given reason.
Wash: This landing's gonna get pretty interesting.
Mal: Define "interesting".
Wash: *shrug* "Oh God, oh God, we're all gonna die"?
Mal: This is the captain. We have a little problem with our entry sequence, so we may experience some slight turbulence and then... explode.

 

Offline Rictor

  • Murdered by Brazilian Psychopath
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US hands over sovereignty in Iraq 2 days early (Iraq is now a sovereign nation, etc.)
It was done to stop the flow of bad news from Iraq. They were seriously biting into Bush's popularity. This way, when anything bad happens, its the Iraqis fault. And America can stop being viewed as an oppressive invader, because wheeeee, now they've got sovereignty.

but, as I may have mentioned in passing, they have nothing of the sort.

 

Offline Bobboau

  • Just a MODern kinda guy
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  • 213
US hands over sovereignty in Iraq 2 days early (Iraq is now a sovereign nation, etc.)
when is voteing schedueld to take place? january? that'll be fun :).
Bobboau, bringing you products that work... in theory
learn to use PCS
creator of the ProXimus Procedural Texture and Effect Generator
My latest build of PCS2, get it while it's hot!
PCS 2.0.3


DEUTERONOMY 22:11
Thou shalt not wear a garment of diverse sorts, [as] of woollen and linen together

 

Offline Rictor

  • Murdered by Brazilian Psychopath
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US hands over sovereignty in Iraq 2 days early (Iraq is now a sovereign nation, etc.)
sure will. I wonder if this elected government will have the power to kick the US troops out, bases and all. If I were a betting man, I would bet against it.

US media has almost no clout in Iraq, so it will be interesting to see who gets elected, and more importantly how and why.

 

Offline Grey Wolf

US hands over sovereignty in Iraq 2 days early (Iraq is now a sovereign nation, etc.)
I wonder what effect, if any, the US elections will have on the situation in Iraq....
You see things; and you say "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say "Why not?" -George Bernard Shaw

 

Offline Rictor

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US hands over sovereignty in Iraq 2 days early (Iraq is now a sovereign nation, etc.)
None that I can think of. Kerry has the same platform as Bush, one could argue that its even worse. Kerry's only intention was to put that happy-faced fix-all "mutlinational peacekeeping force" stamp on the situtation ASAP, and that has in effect been done already. Its bull**** now and it would be bull**** if/when Kerry did it, but its more or less the same plan.

What people mostly don't realize is that the size of the mob does nothing to justify the situation. Is gang-rape better than solitary rape, because it was multilateral instead of unilateral? No, of course not, and the same applies to war.

 
 

Offline Flipside

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US hands over sovereignty in Iraq 2 days early (Iraq is now a sovereign nation, etc.)
Nader should start a coup, it's not like theres going to be any soldiers left in the US to stop him ;) hehehehehe


Or.... as my Dad just put it.....

< singing >'Who do you think you are kidding Mr Laden....'

Not sure how many people will get that though ;)
« Last Edit: June 29, 2004, 01:15:37 pm by 394 »

 
US hands over sovereignty in Iraq 2 days early (Iraq is now a sovereign nation, etc.)
All this conspiracy theory crap is giving me a HEADACHE! *crawls towards a corner*

 

Offline ionia23

  • 26
  • "YES, I did finally see 'The Matrix' 12 years late
US hands over sovereignty in Iraq 2 days early (Iraq is now a sovereign nation, etc.)
Conspiracy Theory - Something allowing someone to think they have control over something they never will
"Why does it want me to say my name?"