[Inquisitor]

Best thing, and the biggest difference, is if you don't like how we did something, the source is right there, show us how to do it better

We are updating the 5 year old game. Find me a developer that HAS that hardware and I can arrange to develop for that platform. Unless you are planning on send me your card

Here's another question: If it takes us 3 months to build a old hardware compatible version, and everyone except for a handul of people upgrade in that timeframe, haven't we just wasted 3 months of our time? We have lives to lead, and supporting dead hardware isn't the sexiest of ways to spend our free time.

Now before you get all irritated, I am not saying no, but, we're all kinda in this together. Like Goob says, you're here now, so we can probably do somethign about it. Just think before you accuse us of "making big company mistakes." It's not likely to win our hearts.

On a related note, if Cet's missions aren't currently validated, they should be.

Thanks

-edit-
If someone finds me a voodoo card, I will do my best to find a machine to put it in.

[Cetanu]

See, I plant a lot of smilies into all my postings so that no one ever feels attacked... written stuff can easily be read different to its original meaning - I guess something still went into the wrong throat, cause I missed one this time?

The "typical company move" answer was directed EXACTLY at the "moving on" posting above it - some form of loud thinking - it was not ment as a hidden attack on the coders here, o.k?

If I could code I would... but I know my abilities are elsewhere

[KARMA]

well I found/find you extremely polite in your requests so far, if you want my opinion , and I'm sure the SCP guys will help you as much as they can till a reasonable level, and probably over:)

by the way, to see if I correctly understood...

what you are basically asking for is exactly the old game with all the new sexps, support for multiplayer and, in a second order, without the original bugs and with some of the additional nongraphic features.

Is this right?

Because I'm not a coder but it sounds to me many times easyer to make this than making a vodoo version of FSO compatible with all the recent stuff.

[Inquisitor]

Find me a card or a guy with a card who knows something about code.



It depends a bit on how much we removed. of that stuff was isolated, it  SHOULDN'T be too big a deal. Someone with time just has to do it and see.

[Cetanu]

Originally posted by KARMA
well I found/find you extremely polite in your requests so far, if you want my opinion , and I'm sure the SCP guys will help you as much as they can till a reasonable level, and probably over:)

That's what I hoped... nothing more

Originally posted by KARMA

by the way, to see if I correctly understood...

what you are basically asking for is exactly the old game with all the new sexps, support for multiplayer and, in a second order, without the original bugs and with some of the additional nongraphic features.

Is this right?

Because I'm not a coder but it sounds to me many times easyer to make this than making a vodoo version of FSO compatible with all the recent stuff.

You got me right... at the moment I (and some other multi-pilots) would be happy if we could play the OLD missions with the OLD graphics on the Fs2net and maybe with less bugs then the vanilla client had... the other "advanced" stuff is not mandatory... if at all I keep wishfull thinking for later...

@Inqui
That sounds like getting sent on an impossible mission - unless Karma gives you his Voodoo2
...I still wonder what happend to the latest builds IF the first versions of added HTL were 4-5 faster then the original engine...

[Svizel]

Originally posted by Inquisitor
Just think before you accuse us of "making big company mistakes." It's not likely to win our hearts.

If you ever have problems with Cet just tell me and i'll cool his head with cold beer.

Anyway... maybe i'm not the engine coder and don't know C++ but if you need help with web interface for SCP multi (statistics, pilot info etc) let me know.

[tom]

@ Karma:
Why so much trouble with compatibility, problems of voodoo with directx and so on??
the problem is not that it is quite difficult to add code for voodoo support, the problem is the replacement of the old engine by a new one.
Why adding so much new stuff? is it really necassary?
the most important problem was adding the new network code, right?
that's all what most of the fs2 player want.
sorry, but maybe the programmers overshooted the goal.

[KARMA]

it doesn't seem you are well aware of the advancements of the scp, to say the minus;)

[castor]

Originally posted by tom
the most important problem was adding the new network code, right?
that's all what most of the fs2 player want.

It is what most of the FS2 multi players want, but that is just part of the picture - multi is the primary interest of only a fraction of the current FS community (look at the HLP members, for example, not many us have registered at FS2NETD).

[ChronoReverse]

Originally, the SCP couldn't be used for multi (at least pxo style).  This is because the PXO code was removed when they handed it to the SCP team.

Most of the work was focused at making new SEXPS, features and graphics upgrades (and of course the big move to dx8 and htl)

Recently, there was work done to add in a PXO replacement.  However, nobody thought that it wouldn't work if you turned all the flags off.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Flipside
It's good to see the multi-players turning up here though

I agree. Between the multi pilots and rediscoverers due to the Derek Smart thing, it's like all of a sudden a bunch of newbies are appearing who actually know lots about FS2

 I especially hope Cetanu hangs around here more cause I was impressed by the FRED tutorials he posted and want to see more of them

[Singh]

I actually want a playable FS2 without the eye-candy, so I can play-test my missions without waiting 10 minutes on loading time

That, and to play multi and blow up things and other people

[Flipside]

Well, more experienced Fredders in the community can ONLY do us good

You guys are going to love the expanded sexp set

The SCP guys are honestly doing their level best to give everyone what they want. Remember, most of the requests they have recieved have been from single-player mods that are housed right here on HLP, now that there are more people wanting to play Multi-play, problems are bound to come to light, which you can all help fix by reporting

Personally, I played multi-play once since it was added, just to test it, which has always struck me as slightly insulting of the effort Kaz put into it, but I'm not a multi-player, so seeing more people in multi will certainly help us fix these problems

[Cetanu]

@tom
you clearly introduced yourself as former PXO pilot with that, welcome drunk

@karajorma
you are 1 of the fingers from my counting hand
ah well, if this I-can't-play wouldn't spoil my fun somewhat I could actually start thinking about the next Fred lesson

@Flipside
Don't give up trying! It was the same back then on PXO - once you get over the first learning curve of multi-player that game really shines... but its addictive so be warned too, hehe

[Flipside]

I will Cetanu, I thoroughly enjoyed the game actually, even if I might as well have painted myself bright orange and written 'Target Drone' down the side of my ship

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Cetanu
@karajorma
you are 1 of the fingers from my counting hand
ah well, if this I-can't-play wouldn't spoil my fun somewhat I could actually start thinking about the next Fred lesson

I look forwards to it. It may not teach me any new skills but quite often stuff like this gives me a completely new idea on how to do something.
 I'll have to finish off MG or SoR and then I can start writing some of my own tutorials based on those missions

Originally posted by Cetanu
@Flipside
Don't give up trying! It was the same back then on PXO - once you get over the first learning curve of multi-player that game really shines... but its addictive so be warned too, hehe

I can see how that starts. I've played a few games on PXO and FSO and enjoyed it. I might have to start playing a bit more often myself

[DareDevil]

As another die-hard Multi player, I support Cetanu's request (as many from the  ex-pxo community).

Not for myself as I use and enjoy all the new features and graphics of FSO without too much probs;  but I have a few friends and squadmates who can't play SCP because of their older PCs.

So a FS2net enabled vanilla FS2 or a FSO "light" version would be a great thing for them as an entry point into the SCP world

But again I can confirm most of the online players who can fully run SCP find you guys have done a tremendous job !

[ChronoReverse]

Hehe, I playtested the mnew nulti a bit too but I think I annoyed the veterans quite a bit in the furball mode and crashing into them over and over XD.

[col crist]

I must say that I am very pleased at the entire Positive dialog on this subject.

I am pleased because I am one of the pilots that helped in the creation of many of the PXO Validated missions from Mission pack 2 and most of the missions from mission pack 3, that V never managed to validate.  All of the pilots that took the time to download the missions AND the sound files will know who Cetanu and the other Drunks from the BDHR are.  My little part in this creation process was to provide the sound files to the mission Director, Cetanu.

FS2 community cannot discount the skill and logic that Cetanu brings to the entire FS community.  
Cet does not program in some of the other programming languages however, he is recognized for his skills in mission design and playability in over 90% of the later FS2 multi-player missions.

For those that are unaware of the original missions I offer a link where you may download them with the sound files and try these missions. http://165thbdhr.com/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=3

This I do know......If the SCP team can use positive feedback that ALL of us can gain from Cetanu and the other FS2 Pilots from the BDHR are more then willing to help and contribute.

I know that the work that the SCP team has today is EXACTLY what we as a community have needed for years.  The foundation that you ALL have generated will again make FS2 the reason many of us love this game and are looking forward too again.

Now from what little I understand of the many comments, I see that some may feel as if there was as a mild attack on their hard work.  This not intended, in fact far from it.
 
As a very brief point of view on the history of the FS2 multi-player community, The PXO FS2 lobby was a very busy, entertaining location for the global FS2 community.  Due to reasons beyond all of our control, support for this area terminated.  Now many of the mission creators, pilots, and FS2 teams have waited for the SCP team to do exactly what you all have done.  That is take the combined experience of all that have contributed and reassemble FS2 as the open program that you have.    

This is excellent !!!

Now the question is how to re-launch FS2 as FS2_Open without loosing the knowledge and skills of the earlier Pilots, Mission designers, Teams and supporters from all that know FS2 for what it was, while simultaneously offering the path to the vast enhancements that are now available thanks to the dedicated work of the SCP team.

I offer to the SCP team that there should be no reason not to provide a default Original-Like platform that services the original game requirements yet allows others to enable the newer features.

These are just MHO and look forward to flying with all of the pilots in FS2 again soon.

Colonel Crist-BDHR
http://165thbdhr.com

[karajorma]

I don't think anyone took it as an attack. Just as something that would be a pain in the arse to do

Oh and in case no one did it earlier



As I said before I'm always happy to see another FREDder