Poll

What about it?

Uber Liberal!
3 (7.7%)
Liberal
3 (7.7%)
Centrist Liberal
9 (23.1%)
Centrist
2 (5.1%)
Centrist Conservative
1 (2.6%)
Conservative
7 (17.9%)
Uber Conservative!
5 (12.8%)
Anarchist (aka food storage)
2 (5.1%)
Vegetable
7 (17.9%)

Total Members Voted: 39

Voting closed: August 04, 2004, 06:37:01 pm

Author Topic: Political beliefs poll  (Read 6100 times)

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Offline Kazan

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centrist liberal
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Offline Mongoose

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Someone here had to represent the uber-conservatives :p

I'm against abortion, gay marriage, embryonic stem cell research, human cloning, and the EU.  I'm for small government, completely legalized firearms (guns don't kill people, I do :p), the kicking of terrorist ass, and getting the US out of the UN.  I'd also like to see the rest of the world take some responsibility in solving the world's problems, but I guess that's just a pipe dream :).

 

Offline Rictor

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Quote
Originally posted by Mongoose
Someone here had to represent the uber-conservatives :p

I'm against abortion, gay marriage, embryonic stem cell research, human cloning, and the EU.  I'm for small government, completely legalized firearms (guns don't kill people, I do :p), the kicking of terrorist ass, and getting the US out of the UN.


The US out of the UN? What I wouldn't give to see that. Seriously, I would devote my time to supporting any major US politician with this as his agenda. Of course, they're not that stupid, they have to maintain a facade of you, know, not being a hegemonic power.

 

Offline Kazan

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So mongoose is in favor of forcing women to carry babies to term that will cause their death, are the results of rape, are massively deformed (inhumane to the mother and the baby), etc

he wants to deny people their human rights and prohibit them from entering into civil contracts

he wants to prevent us from creating medical technologies that will save millions of lives and cure debilitating diseases (so much for sanctity of life!)

he is against the EU which is the europe tending tword becoming a centralized power and more stable thereby

Small government we can agree on, just how small is a different matter

I am in favor of legalizing almost all firearms -- but you must get a license (guns laws don't stop criminals from getting guns, and people kill people - they only sometimes use guns)

I'm all in favor of kicking the ass of _REAL_ terrorists

US out of the UN = bad idea, isolationism harmed us in the past, it will harm us again -- you should learn from your mistakes.  The UN does need to get off it's collective asses and do things about the genocide in Sudan, etc
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Offline Beowulf

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A *classical* liberal, not a modern one. Hence, I believe in freedom, not socialism.

Constitutionalist.
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Offline Kazan

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oh yeah -- people who believe in god but are anti-gay


the majority of fertilized eggs never become children - they are _NATURALLY_ aborted -- so if god created us, that requires that he created that situation as well -- so god is the largest pro-abortion and abortion-giver in existance [were he to exist]


bazing
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Offline Mongoose

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Quote
Originally posted by Kazan
So mongoose is in favor of forcing women to carry babies to term that will cause their death, are the results of rape, are massively deformed (inhumane to the mother and the baby), etc

he wants to deny people their human rights and prohibit them from entering into civil contracts

he wants to prevent us from creating medical technologies that will save millions of lives and cure debilitating diseases (so much for sanctity of life!)

he is against the EU which is the europe tending tword becoming a centralized power and more stable thereby

Small government we can agree on, just how small is a different matter

I am in favor of legalizing almost all firearms -- but you must get a license (guns laws don't stop criminals from getting guns, and people kill people - they only sometimes use guns)

I'm all in favor of kicking the ass of _REAL_ terrorists

US out of the UN = bad idea, isolationism harmed us in the past, it will harm us again -- you should learn from your mistakes.  The UN does need to get off it's collective asses and do things about the genocide in Sudan, etc

Funny, you seem to forget mentioning the unborn children that are brutally murdered through abortion and embryonic stem-cell research.  I guess they don't matter, do they?  Remember:  you were once an embryo yourself, and if your mother had decided to abort you, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Oh, and by the way, marriage has been an established institution for thousands of years between a single man and woman.  I don't see how obliterating this for a bunch of whining ultra-liberals will help this world in any faction.  In fact, I see it as further moral degredation.

Actually, I don't really care about the EU too much.  If a bunch of European countries want to give up their sovereignty and national pride to make themselves feel like a superpower, that's their own business.  As long as the trend doesn't spread overseas, I'm fine with that.

I'm not promoting isolationism; I'm simply stating that the UN has become corrupt, bloated, and utterly ineffective in today's world.  Their inability to uphold their own resolution against Iraq shows this very clearly.  Which country contributes the most money toward the UN and international aid programs?  That's right, it's the US.  We've been footing the UN's bill for far too long; it's time for some of the other member nations to stop spewing hot air and put their money where their mouths are.

When I first saw these forums, I told myself that, due to the decidedly left-leaning tone, I wouldn't involve myself in political discussion here.  I thought that I would just be inviting flame wars upon myself.  I was just going to visit this board as a Freespace fan, nothing more. Unfortunately, I was unable to keep my political opinions bottled up forever. I hope you don't think of me as a freakish racist bigot; nothing could be further from the truth.  I simply have differing opinions from the majority of members of this board.

(I should have just stuck to the DBB's Ethics and Commentary forum, like a good Descenter, but I just had to stick my neck out, didn't I? :p)

 

Offline Kazan

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A) "brutally" is patently false, and they're not children, they're featuses - the mothers rights trump theirs as they are not alive they - they are NOT their own life form they are dependant on their mothers body

"and if your mother had decided to abort you, we wouldn't be having this conversation" isn't an argument, it's a tautology, a pointless one at that which doesn't further your argument except in your own simple mind

B) "marriage has been an established institution for thousands of years between a single man and woman" WRONG AGAIN -- in many religions and cultures it is NOT so, and infact has NEVER been so

C) "Actually, I don't really care about the EU too much. If a bunch of European countries want to give up their sovereignty and national pride to make themselves feel like a superpower, that's their own business. As long as the trend doesn't spread overseas, I'm fine with that."  

ten minutes ago you said the opposite - has new evidence come to you since then, or did my post getcha?

D) UN I generally gree with this statement

E)  Denying that you are a "freakish, racist, bigot" doesn't make that true -- you're against homosexual marriage - that makes you a bigot, sad but true
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Offline Grey Wolf

You know, he has a small bit of a point. As it currently stands, the UN is virtually useless. It needs to be reformed to have some actual power to enforce its rulings, as opposed to depending on member states.
You see things; and you say "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say "Why not?" -George Bernard Shaw

 

Offline Mongoose

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Kazan, there is an enormous difference between a miscarriage and the deliberate, cold-blooded "termination" of a pregnancy.  If you can't see that, then I truly pity you.  I also pity your lack of belief in God, but I'm not going to go into that.

Does it matter if a fetus is dependent on its mother for its survival?  Does that make it any less of a human?  I, for one, say no.  A fetus is a separate organism, with its own unique genetic pattern, created at the moment of conception.  It has the same right to live a full life as its mother does. I've always thought it to be ridiculous how some people could argue that, just because the fetus is not born or fully developed, it is any less of a human life.  A fetus meets all of the biological criteria of human life; there is no realistic way that you can claim that a fetus is anything less than human.  My "tautology," showing my "simple-mindedness," was meant to reinforce that point:  every person once started out as a single fertilized egg.  That one cell contained all of the potential to create a lifetime of personal experiences, accomplishments, and emotions.  You advocate throwing all of this away for reasons of convenience.  Even if you don't believe the fetus itself is human life, surely you acknowledge that a newborn baby is.  Obviously, a fetus will someday become that newborn.  Are you willing to sacrifice the potential of a life that could accomplish great feats just to protect some precious "right of choice" that does not even exist in the first place?

It is true that, in some cultures, polygamy and other practices are and have been the norm and accepted standard.  But for the vast majority of civilized human history, spanning thousands of cultures and peoples, marriage has been defined as one man, one woman.  What changed in the past three years or so to make this definition malleable?  I don't see anything different with the world.  Why is this suddenly such a huge issue?  If homosexuals always desired marriage, why wasn't it an issue in the past?  I myself see the drive for same-sex marriage as an attempt to foist the homosexual lifestyle on society as "normal" and "acceptable."  Call me a bigot, but it is not.  You know that the biological function of human sexuality is to produce offspring, and obviously, a homosexual couple cannot do so unassisted.  Marriage, as an institution, was developed to foster development of the family unit.  Same-sex marriage is yet another assault on the basic family structure, which has been the cornerstone of society for thousands of years.  Yeah, sounds like a great idea to end all that for "equality's sake," doesn't it?

About the EU: I personally disagree with it, and I don't understand the rationale of nations that joined it.  My last post didn't change my position but merely clarified.  As I said, I would like it if the EU was no more, but I consider the issue to be one which Europe will decide for itself, for good or ill.  Interestingly enough, recent financial predictions have suggested that the Euro will most likely fail within several years' time.  It seems as though this experiment in global government, which I consider to be very dangerous, will not succeed.

Once again:  one who does not want the "normalcy" of a same-sex couple forced onto them by a bunch of ultra-liberals is not a bigot, no matter what your opinion is.  I do not see anything wrong with the actual state of homosexuality, since I understand that it is at least in part influenced by factors beyond a person's control.  However, being a homosexual does not give one the license to "marry" someone of one's own sex.  Homosexuality can be psychologically treated, just as excessive heterosexual sex drive can.  I am personally against both homosexual and heterosexual activity outside of the marriage of a man and a woman, for the purpose of bringing forth new life.  If you want to keep calling me a bigot, I can't stop you.  In response, however, I will say that I see you as morally decrepit.  If there is any way that we can see past these limited judgments of each other, let's try to.

 

Offline Mr. Vega

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Quote
My "tautology," showing my "simple-mindedness," was meant to reinforce that point: every person once started out as a single fertilized egg. That one cell contained all of the potential to create a lifetime of personal experiences, accomplishments, and emotions.


Then is it a tragedy every time a couple decides not to get pregnant? (this is not a refuttal of an anti-abortion position, just something for you to think about)

Quote
It is true that, in some cultures, polygamy and other practices are and have been the norm and accepted standard. But for the vast majority of civilized human history, spanning thousands of cultures and peoples, marriage has been defined as one man, one woman. What changed in the past three years or so to make this definition malleable? I don't see anything different with the world. Why is this suddenly such a huge issue? If homosexuals always desired marriage, why wasn't it an issue in the past?


1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taboo
2. Homosexual relationships were only accepted openly a short while ago.

Quote
I myself see the drive for same-sex marriage as an attempt to foist the homosexual lifestyle on society as "normal" and "acceptable." Call me a bigot, but it is not. You know that the biological function of human sexuality is to produce offspring, and obviously, a homosexual couple cannot do so unassisted. Marriage, as an institution, was developed to foster development of the family unit. Same-sex marriage is yet another assault on the basic family structure, which has been the cornerstone of society for thousands of years. Yeah, sounds like a great idea to end all that for "equality's sake," doesn't it?


If marriage is that easy to fracture, then it wouldn't have lasted these thousands of years.

A more effective way of preserving families would be to spend more effort nurturing it from the inside, instead of wasting time attacking outside phantom threats to it, no?

Kinda like patriotism.

Edit -P.S. if you want to preserve marriages, then why not just ban divorce?
« Last Edit: August 05, 2004, 01:51:37 am by 490 »
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Offline Col. Fishguts

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Had to vote vegetable, since in most democratic countries there are MORE than just 2 political main directions.
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Offline Knight Templar

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Oh jesus, another one of these?

I think Soviet Russia was cool, you tell me.
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Offline Petrarch of the VBB

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Comrade!

 
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor
If you had ever lived under such a system, you would hold quite different views.


Maybe.  Maybe not.  Living under the current 'system' of democracy, I see bad decisions and corruption in the goverment daily.  The goverment doesnt do what the people want it to do, and the people dont want to do what the goverment wants.
There's never a perfect solution to government, ofcourse.





Quote
Originally posted by Rictor

So speaks the arm-chair philosopher.


As apposed to the radical extremist philosopher?
Anyway, politics isnt my field.  I'm an engineer, I solve problems, not create them.

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Offline Zarax

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A quick couple of words here:
The reasons against gay marriage are pointless...
1) Gay marriages were present since the ancient greece, see Athens.

2) If the reason against it is old time tradition, then paedophiles should be accepted too with this line of reasonement (see ancient greeks as for 1)

Oh, and about the EU:
Do not underestimate them, in the long term Russia will join and then the US will most likely be surpassed as superpower...

About abortion: being an unwanted children is something you should think about...
Unless adoption will be made MUCH easier i will always be pro abortion, and not only for medical reasons...
The Best is Yet to Come

 

Offline Kazan

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there were sancitified homosexual marriages in the catholic church in the 3rd century AD

furthemore mongoose -- it is _NOT_ it's own lifeform as it cannot exist outside it's mothers body, and if unique geneitic material makes it it's own thing then every cell in our body is host to another lifeform - our mitchondria

get past authoritarian morality and start using your brain - things are NOT black and white... and your "sanctity of life" **** is exactly that: ****

A) you're against research that would save millions of lives (and no, not all stem cells have to come from fertilized eggs -- not like all fertilized eggs become children anyway

B) i'm sure you're pro-death penalty, it would fit your demographic

furthermore your loaded language "cold-blooded yada yada bull****" is nothing but you getting caught up in emotionally charged language -- if you don't like abortion so be it, don't get one, but don't tell other people what to do with THEIR BODY (until the 'date of viability' late in the 3rd tri it _IS_ part of the mothers body) ---- the mothers rights to bodily integrity and health come first
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Offline Kazan

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heading off a moronic argument here

speaking of paedophiles -- are you aware that the gender of their victims has nothing to do with their sexual orientation - it's purely an opportunitistic thing

[thank you psychology :D]
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Offline Night Hammer

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Conservative, hell, im down here in Bush-town nothin else to be:p
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