[ionia23]

Originally posted by Sandwich
Because there ARE no jobs there. WHY there are no jobs, you'd have to ask Mr. Arafat.

The fact that Hamas and Al-Aqsa pay signifigant bounties to the families of suicide bombers does not help matters at all.   If you've got squat for a job, or a job you can't get to, and one single act can have your family taken care of for life, I can see the desperation.  Israel's fault?  Not by a long shot.

[Corsair]

Y'alls are just as bad as the politicians who just go back and forth. You don't even listen and try to learn. For one second, everybody take a step back and try to see things from the other side's point of view.


Deep breath.....


Okay. Continue.

[Flipside]

Hmmmmmmmm... Well, I suspect 'everyone' and 'no-one' is to blame

It presents a tricky situation :-

Israel, with good relations with the US recieves support and backing from the US and flourishes. Not to mention the Jewish were pretty well off when they arrived in Israel.

The Palestinian lands, coupled with their leaders atrocious spending regimes, which I have mentioned before, have a distrust of America, partly through the formation of Israel and through various real or imagined deeds later. They recieve little or no support and struggle.

Therefore opportunitists on the poor side use Israels wealth and support from America to generate hatred against Both Israel and America.

However, in retaliation for this, both America and Israel  begin 'incursions' which are high in civilian life-cost, and which generate even more poverty, death and self-justified hatred.

You can see where this is going round and round in a circle alas

[Gank]

Originally posted by Sandwich
"...take the jobs the Israelis left..." If Israel ceased to exist, there would BE no jobs here. I'm finding it hard to understand what the situation related to employment is over here that would give you reason to think otherwise. Please elaborate.

Are you honestly that stupid that you think the palestinians would not be able to provide work for themselves without Israeli help? Wtf do you think they did before you invaded and took over their country, sat around scratching their balls all day?

Originally posted by Sandwich
Again, you're gonna have to explain that one a bit better (preferably without the vulgarities). And what does any of it have to do with Christian Zionist beliefs?

The whole Jesus is going to come because God has restored the kingdom of Israel deal, If what is now Israel is actually the restored kingdom of Judea then your end time prophesies havent been fullfilled. Or do you have some way of getting around this as well.

Originally posted by Sandwich
Because there ARE no jobs there. WHY there are no jobs, you'd have to ask Mr. Arafat.

LOL, blame it on a man Israel has kept a prisioner in his compound for years.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by ionia23




The fact that Hamas and Al-Aqsa pay signifigant bounties to the families of suicide bombers does not help matters at all.   If you've got squat for a job, or a job you can't get to, and one single act can have your family taken care of for life, I can see the desperation.  Israel's fault?  Not by a long shot.

(as an aside)

Israel also pays large sums of money to Palestinians to become informants.  IIRC Amnesty International has criticised this because the money is so vastly in excess of normal Palestinian wages that it could be construed as placing undue/unfair pressure & coercion.

(These people often end up horribly tortured and killed along with family members when they are 'found out').

[Corsair]

Gank, I'm just curious. What would be your solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict? Forget about the history of it...how would you fix it NOW?

[ionia23]

Originally posted by aldo_14


(as an aside)

Israel also pays large sums of money to Palestinians to become informants.  IIRC Amnesty International has criticised this because the money is so vastly in excess of normal Palestinian wages that it could be construed as placing undue/unfair pressure & coercion.

(These people often end up horribly tortured and killed along with family members when they are 'found out').

Oh crap.  One of the things to add to my list of things I didn't know .  Thanks for filling me in.  I'm going to have to think about this.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Sandwich
In what way? Politically? Workforce-wise?

Re-read the thread. Some one said that Israel was showing restraint by not wiping out the palestinians.

It's not showing restraint to not cripple your own economy. It's shoing common sense.


The simple fact that is obvious to almost anyone not in either country is that both Israel and Palestine are acting like spoilt children, blaming each other for their problems.

Since Israel is the bigger child who should "know better" it gets the lions share of the criticism. But I doubt that there are many people from outside both countries who don't think that both of you need to grow up a little.

[Gank]

Originally posted by Corsair
Gank, I'm just curious. What would be your solution to the Arab-Israeli conflict? Forget about the history of it...how would you fix it NOW?

Ship everyone who wasnt born or whose parents werent born in the region back to wherever they came from. Then make the rest into one country and hold democratic elections.

Re the Palestinian economy:

Real per capita GDP for the West Bank and Gaza Strip (WBGS) declined by about one-third between 1992 and 1996 due to the combined effect of falling aggregate incomes and rapid population growth. The downturn in economic activity was largely the result of Israeli closure policies - the imposition of border closures in response to security incidents in Israel - which disrupted labor and commodity market relationships between Israel and the WBGS. The most serious social effect of this downturn was rising unemployment, which in the WBGS during the 1980s was generally under 5%; by 1995 it had risen to over 20%. Israel's use of comprehensive closures during the next three years decreased and, in 1998, Israel implemented new policies to reduce the impact of closures and other security procedures on the movement of Palestinian goods and labor. These changes fueled an almost three-year-long economic recovery in the West Bank and Gaza Strip; real GDP grew by 5% in 1998 and 6% in 1999. Recovery was upended in the last quarter of 2000 with the outbreak of violence, which triggered tight Israeli closures of Palestinian self-rule areas and severely disrupted trade and labor movements. In 2001, and even more severely in 2002, Israeli military measures in Palestinian Authority areas resulted in the destruction of much capital plant and administrative structure, widespread business closures, and a sharp drop in GDP. Including Gaza Strip, the UN estimates that more than 100,000 Palestinians out of the 125,000 who used to work in Israel, in Israeli settlements, or in joint industrial zones have lost their jobs. In addition, about 80,000 Palestinian workers inside the Territories are losing their jobs. International aid of $2 billion in 2001-02 to the West Bank and Gaza Strip prevented the complete collapse of the economy.

From the CIA factbook.