[Mr Carrot]

i wasnt disputing that

[Vaelinx]

I know I was just using it as an opourtunity to add websites supporting your point.

[Starks]

I felt the need to scream the word, "PWND!" when I watched it crash on live NasaTV.

[Martinus]

[color=66ff00]Who cares if it crashed and who really cares if it cost that amount of cash.

How much is a dream worth?
[/color]

[ionia23]

Originally posted by Maeglamor
[color=66ff00]Who cares if it crashed and who really cares if it cost that amount of cash.

How much is a dream worth?
[/color]

250 bucks and a Tara Reid sandwich.  I'm good to go.

[Nuke]

my biggest issue with nasa is that they are going about the whole field of space exploration the wrong way. the shuttle is way out of date, the avionics are probibly slower than my frst computer and weigh so much that the cost of a launch goes up a few million. last figures i looked at marked the cost of sending something into space at about $10000/lb. the advent of carbon fiber composites and the ever decreasing size of electronics could really cut down on payload. nasa needs to borrow a few of russias ideas, such as renting out seats on board space craft to rich civilians. also learn some lessons from burt rutan. space ship one has already reached x-prize altitude and set world records and is due to make a run for the prize by the end of this month. and all at a cost of 20 million. nasa needs to hire that guy.

[Bobboau]

two words: space elivator.

[aldo_14]

3 words

nae ****ing chance

[karajorma]

Originally posted by Nuke
and the ever decreasing size of electronics could really cut down on payload.

Congratulations. You've just lost a next generation space shuttle due to it being hit by a single cosmic ray!

There's a damn good reason why NASA uses old components for the shuttle and it's nothing to do with cost.

[magatsu1]

Originally posted by aldo_14
3 words

nae ****ing chance

intheory that is possible. But the only substance strong enough (that we know of) is diamond

[Setekh]

Hey Vaelinx, I haven't seen you around before. Welcome to HLP.

Anyway, yeah, this is a real shame. I'm still excited to see how space exploration and research will go within our lifetimes, but we're hardly going to get anywhere if we keep on bungling up like this.

[Bobboau]

no carbon nano-tubes, and they've nearly reached the point by wich they would be strong enough, we're already produceing the stuff in kilometer long spools. the only real problem is avoiding debris.

[Vaelinx]

Thank you Setekh.

There are people working on the requirements for a space elevator.  The thing is, you need more than simply strength.  You need flexibility to some extent, and a strength to weight ratio that can remain light enough to hold itself up.  Plus whatever tether you have.  So Bobboau is right in that carbon nano-tubes are the best prospect...  But there are more real problems than avoiding debris...  From two perspectives:  

1) Military/defense:  You thing that a tall building is a good terrorist target?  If something went wrong with something like that, the potential destruction it could reap is HUGE... nuke huge.
2) Practical/Environmental:  While the upper atmosphere is realtively stable laterally, it has to be able to deal with potential weather problems on earth.  And there are possible dangers in doing wierd stuff with/to the Ionosphere...

[Flipside]

Originally posted by magatsu1


intheory that is possible. But the only substance strong enough (that we know of) is diamond

Actually, I think there are some tensile carbon-steels that can take the stress as well, but I think at the moment they are actually more expensive by weight than the diamonds  

Space Elevator is the way to go, It would cut the cost of putting ships in orbit by massive proportions

[ionia23]

Let's hear it for awesome ship construction (and a little dumb luck)

Also, regarding the space elevator thing, Ihave a general question.

Remember taking two magnets in school?  Setting them pole-to-pole one way made them attract, the other way made them repel?

With an electromagnet you can control field strength.

Couldn't something like this be used for the 'elevator?  Pushing against Earth's own natural magnetism?

Or is it a retarded concept.  I'm picturing a huge platform with giant electromagnets on it where field strength can be controlled.

[Vaelinx]

I heard that today as well, and am happy that they managed to salvage the mission.

For your other questions:

Well, the Earth's magnetic field doesn't work quite that way.  For one, the field lines tend to be tangential to the surface of the earth for almost all of it's surface.  This would require something a little more exotic than simply a strong electromagnet above the ground.

The other thing is that the field strength drops off as 1/(distance)^2.  So the power requirements would be huge to beat gravity, and even then you'd have a coil/generator to mass ratio with a high enough efficiency so that you could lift the entire apparatus.  Superconductors help though .

Now, using the Earth's ionosphere, we do similar things in space using the E-field instead (the E-filed is cooler than the H-field anyway ).  For low orbit, tether systems are employed to essentially induce charge/potential difference on one end of the tether, causing a net force in a certain direction depending on that charge.  Currently we use such a system to control and hasten the decay of slowly decaying orbits.  Basically, it acts as a sort of EM "anchor."

However, if we were to actually build a space elevator, I think that electromagnetic locks on Earth would be an excellent choice for anchoring it down.  Rather than some sort of mechanical anchor to bedrock or something, a field controlled anchor could allow for more flex or slack, etc... easier.  The only problem is that it would require mechanical failsafes....  But there are actually intellegent scientists, researchers, and engineers that meet to talk about the serious viability of a space elevator...

Another option for getting into space: inductive launching.  Like a long EM rail gun with a barrel burrowed through miles of mountains, and shoots the payload out into space...  maybe not a good idea for manned flight, but eventualy for resource delivery it could be possible...

[Setekh]

No prob, Vaelinx. (Where's that name from?)

Now, where was that thread on the space elevator we had a few weeks back? About all I know about space elevators is what I learnt from playing Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri.

[Bobboau]

the snapping of a (realy big) nanotube strand wouldn't have the destructive capasity of a firecracker, the stuff has the weight of news paper, it's termenal velocity, most of it will ether flap about for a while falling, or burn up before hitting.
but it would still be a good idea to mount the thing somewere unpopulated.

[Nuke]

such as antarctica, or northern russia

as for nasa's issues with modernized electronics technology, im sure its possible to use some kind of shielding on the technology to keep it safe from cosmic rays. advances in steatlh technology has rendered substances that will absorb or deflect those pesky rays, unfortuneately said substances are probibly classified technology and not available for nasa's use. they can still save weight, for example replacing crt displays with lcd displays. simply replacing old style resistors  with chip resistors would cut the weight tremendously. most impotant thing to do is replace of the shuttle's aluminum and titanium alloys with carbon fiber composite would strengthen the shuttle and cut the weight by huge factors. if you can make the whole ship light enough you can decelerate in the upper atmosphere and eliminate the need for those hreavy thermal tiles (sorta like space ship one).

as for the space elevator its a good in theory idea, but in practice is a different story entirely. even after nanotubes evolve to the point where they can be used in heavy construction i still think that a structure of that magnatude is far beyond our capabilities to construct.

[Bobboau]

it _has_ to be mounted at the equator, sort of a design requierment

and, why?
it's basicly launching a spool into geosyncronus orbit and unwinding it.

and you do know that cosmic rays pack the energy of a 90 mph soft ball into the mass of a proton right?