[TrashMan]

Originally posted by Pnakotus

I don't understand the Ancients=no beams comments.  Who says beams can penetrate Lucys shield?  There is no reason to assume that the Ancients had no beam weapon technology.  Of course, I doubt they were that advanced militarily, since they were far larger than GTVA and were defeated by the Lucy fleet singlehandedly.

Who said that the Ancients were defeated by the Lucy fleet singlehandedly? They might have sent their whole armada...

[Johnmike]

In many of your conclusions you assume that the Shivans have been sitting there waiting for the GTVA or Ancients to come along.  You know, eight thousand years is a long time to wait.  For example, the conclusion that the Lucifer was designed to take out the Ancients and was there on standby, waiting for them.  An eight thousand year old ship?  Think of a human ship eight HUNDRED years ago.  Yeah, we're going to use that to kick the ass of the enemy.  I'd love to see it's effectiveness in WWII.

[aldo_14]

8000 years is not a long time if your race has existed for millenia.

[NGTM-1R]

If the Ancients were defeated by the Lucifer fleet, that'd explain why the Lucifer fleet was apparently pretty small. The Ancients chewed up a lot of the lesser ships (cruisers etc.).

It's never explictly stated, but one gets the feeling in FS1 that a pair of Shivan cruisers and a few wings of bombers/fighters could waltz into most systems and lay waste the PVN/GTA defenders, and that's exactly what's happening in most cases.

[Kosh]

Originally posted by ngtm1r

It's never explictly stated, but one gets the feeling in FS1 that a pair of Shivan cruisers and a few wings of bombers/fighters could waltz into most systems and lay waste the PVN/GTA defenders, and that's exactly what's happening in most cases.

At the beginning yes, because the PVN and the GTA were caught totally by suprise. I am not so sure later on.

While the Shivan fleet in FS1 WAS much smaller than the one in FS2, it was still larger and more powerful than the GTA and the PVN combined.

[Aspa]

We all know Shivans operate in zero-g and are almost never interested in planets. So it seems logical to me that they evolved in a zero-g environment - maybe a nebula? It should have all the stuff needed for starting life floating around, and lots of lightning to start it all of too - as we've seen in-game

So maybe the Sathanas fleet wasn't just cutting of the GTVA by novaing Capella. They were making a home or base for themselves by essentialy 'terraforming' the entire system.

Maybe they didn't evolve by themselves. The idea that shivans are part of a much bigger problem (I'll call it MBP and think of it as an individual race from now on) - maybe the MBP grew or engineered the shivans in a nebula as a way to get a race totally at home in zero-g and naturally evolved for space combat. Then the MBP lose control of their shivan slave warriors who try to escape by subspace... I can't think of an idea on how they got their initimate subspace knowledge though-

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Aspa
We all know Shivans operate in zero-g and are almost never interested in planets. So it seems logical to me that they evolved in a zero-g environment - maybe a nebula? It should have all the stuff needed for starting life floating around, and lots of lightning to start it all of too - as we've seen in-game

So maybe the Sathanas fleet wasn't just cutting of the GTVA by novaing Capella. They were making a home or base for themselves by essentialy 'terraforming' the entire system.

Maybe they didn't evolve by themselves. The idea that shivans are part of a much bigger problem (I'll call it MBP and think of it as an individual race from now on) - maybe the MBP grew or engineered the shivans in a nebula as a way to get a race totally at home in zero-g and naturally evolved for space combat. Then the MBP lose control of their shivan slave warriors who try to escape by subspace... I can't think of an idea on how they got their initimate subspace knowledge though-

Or maybe the Shivans just modified themselves.  It is, after all, predicted by many people that humanity will modify itself with cybernetics or genetic engineering when space travel and colonisation become common.

[Galemp]

Everything's explained in the FS1 Ancients monologues... the Ancients were a powerful spacefaring species that conquered the galaxy, extinguishing potential life. They 'trespassed' into subspace, which alerted the Shivans (destroyers + preservers) to their presence. The Shivans destroyed the Ancients so that other species in their infancy could be given a chance to live.

[TrashMan]

So the Shivans basicly destroy ever race that becomes powerfull enough to threathen "young" races..

so they basicly let us live so they can kill us later..

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Galemp
Everything's explained in the FS1 Ancients monologues... the Ancients were a powerful spacefaring species that conquered the galaxy, extinguishing potential life. They 'trespassed' into subspace, which alerted the Shivans (destroyers + preservers) to their presence. The Shivans destroyed the Ancients so that other species in their infancy could be given a chance to live.

It's explained from the perspective of the ancients.

[Galemp]

And from the player's perspective, in the last monologue (lucy dies.)

[NGTM-1R]

Yeah, that explanation doesn't quite make sense to me...save them now, kill them later...

[boewolf]

How about this.  Save them now.  Kill them later if they discover subspace.  Leave them alone if they find some other way of long distance travel.

[Galemp]

The point is to give every potential intelligent life a chance to live and prosper; if that race discovers and harnesses subspace, and uses it to crush, subdue, enslave and kill other potential life, then it's the Shivans' responsibility to destroy them and therefore preserve other life throughout the galaxy. Humans (and Vasudans, and Ancients) had their chance, and now because of their actions, their time is up.

As far as FS2 goes, perhaps the Shivans have given the Terrans and Vasudans another chance... who knows.

[aldo_14]

Maybe it's simply an extension of self-preservation.  Kill them before they're strong enough to be your enemies.

Or a holy war to cleanse subspace.

Maybe the Shivans just don't have the resouces to crush the GTVA in FS2.... yes, they have 80 Sathani - but how long can they afford to keep them in GTVA space?

Albeit i've always liked the idea that  the Capella nova was simply a form of cautery to seal in the GTVA..... or seal it off.

[NGTM-1R]

...You know, I like that "another chance" idea. Particularly since the Terrans and Vasudans, formerly engaged in killing each other, are now allies.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by ngtm1r
...You know, I like that "another chance" idea. Particularly since the Terrans and Vasudans, formerly engaged in killing each other, are now allies.

The Shivans did return (in a sense) after the NTf rebelled....... of course, the NTF also let them in by activating the Knossos, it would seem.....

[NGTM-1R]

And then went away again shortly after the end of the NTF Rebellion.

They were drawn to the conflict, and when that went away they left.