[Deepblue]

Originally posted by vyper
[q]if they can't, too bad.[/q]

Try living with diabetes, injecting yourself four times a day, testing your blood every day, fearing loss of eyesight and other complications even if you do everything right, and then tell me it's too bad that stem cell research shouldn't be allowed if it breaches your definition of human life.

Nature will always find a way - it might hurt, it might be violent, nature will find a way. We are part of nature, we have found a way to find cures to diseases like diabetes.

I have a friend who has diebetes and does inject himself every day, despite this he is firmly against stem cell research and abortion.

[Deepblue]

After 9 months does a tumor suddenly have the ability to learn and develop and gain an understanding of the universe?

[Ghostavo]

So fetus are now children? I supposed the next step would be to criminalise masturbation as sperm is going to be wasted and therefore "potencial human beings" are going to be "killed". After that women will be put under arrest if they do not get preignant every 9 months because they are wasting valuable "potencial human beings". Yeah... that's the path to take...

[01010]

Originally posted by Deepblue
After 9 months does a tumor suddenly have the ability to learn and develop and gain an understanding of the universe?

I think you grossly overestimate the vast majority of humanities capabilities there.

[Liberator]

Originally posted by vyper
[q]Quite the opposite in fact, it requires men of high ethics and morals that Christianity, and religion in general, incubates.[/q]

So Muslim/Catholic men who would force their daughters to stay home and never choose their own path should be allowed into govt because they are defending _a_ particular morality?

 

AFAIK, Catholic fathers don't do that much anymore.

The Islamic faith is suffering through it's own Dark Age right now and to compare it to Christianity is fallacious at best.  

Christianity has undergone a radical shift since the beginning of the Renasiance, disregarding the more draconian and pointless pieces of the dogma, condensing it down to the Message, which is God loves you and has a plan for you, but it's up to you to follow it.

[Deepblue]

Originally posted by Ghostavo
So fetus are now children? I supposed the next step would be to criminalise masturbation as sperm is going to be wasted and therefore "potencial human beings" are going to be "killed". After that women will be put under arrest if they do not get preignant every 9 months because they are wasting valuable "potencial human beings". Yeah... that's the path to take...

Read the whole thread, that topic was already covered. You can go back and read my explanation.

[vyper]

[q]I have a friend who has diebetes and does inject himself every day, despite this he is firmly against stem cell research and abortion.[/q]

Then he's a bloody fool. Take it from one who knows - the price is worth paying to cure this condition.

[Deepblue]

You have diabetes?

[vyper]

[q]
AFAIK, Catholic fathers don't do that much anymore.[/q]

It is if the guy the girl's interested in is a Protestant.

Odd how a complete fallacy can turn so many people actually...

[Deepblue]

BTW I really don't appreciate the insults. We can afford to be civil.

[vyper]

[q]You have diabetes?[/q]

Yes Deep I do. So you can understand I'm a little less than sympathetic to your argument.

[Deepblue]

Ah well, everyone has a different oppinion but doing so does not make you a fool.

[vyper]

Originally posted by Deepblue
BTW I really don't appreciate the insults. We can afford to be civil.

insults?

[Deepblue]

The world is bleak...


What happened to my "I'm sick of it..." thread. I feel like ranting again...

[vyper]

[q]Ah well, everyone has a different oppinion but doing so does not make you a fool.[/q]

It does when that opinion may kill you or end in you losing your bodily functions one day. I'm sorry, but your freind is plain wrong and he needs to take a look at what will happen to him 4o-50 years from now.

[Kazan]

the islamic faith isn't very far behind christianity anything thought to the contrary is ethnocentrism

[Ghostavo]

Deepblue, I've read Mongoose's answer, but you fail to see that if the "natural processes" are not interfered, a child will also be born out of sperm and eggs, after all procreation IS natural! Actually, either everything or nothing is natural for everything is either part of nature or nothing is.

[vyper]

[q]the islamic faith isn't very far behind christianity anything thought to the contrary is ethnocentrism[/q]

Alright, so they're all equally backward and fascist. I won't argue against that.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Liberator
Why?  

You don't think outside you're force fed stereotypes when thinking about me or others of my position.

Well, that's bollocks.  I've never said you can't hold your opinion.  What I have said is that a free and fair society has to be secular to have equal rights for all - religious or otherwise.  What you have said, is indicative of poor stereotyping tailored to suiting your argument.  You don't agree with premarital sex, so all those who do it are sluts and animals (exact words used).  You don't believe that people can be commited without being married - again, there are millions of couples to prove you wrong.

So the only basis I can find for this argument, is stereotyping.  If you have factual evidence, prove me wrong.

Originally posted by Liberator
I understand Kazan and the rest of you to a lesser degree now.

If a piece of information doesn't agree with or at least discredit the opposition it's biased and therefore irrelevant.

As I've repeatedly said, and as you well know Kazan, the "separation of church and state" quote you and your ilk are so fond of bringing up anytime a person of faith stands-up for themselves and their rights was actually written to the ladies of a church is Pennsylvania(IIRC) who were worried that the new United States would enforce a state religion like the Anglican Church they had fled England to escape.

Quite the opposite in fact, it requires men of high ethics and morals that Christianity, and religion in general, incubates.

I think history has proven that laws and morals are tailored by societal needs, not religion.  In fact, I think you'd find that the laws and morals set in religion are set there to find a way of enforcing them upon the populace - i.e. 'obey your god'.

Also, the seperation of church and state is exactly why abortion has to be legalised.  Unless you can find scientific evidence that a foetus is intelligent - i.e. an individual - before the time limit, there is no argument against it.

Again, nations have to be secular to be free and fair.  Any other way is clearly discriminatory against other religions and aetheists.

I think the major change, BTW, in Christianity is that less and less people subscribe to it because they find it irrelevant in todays society.

[01010]

Who needs religion to tell you what to think, nowadays we have T.V.