[redmenace]

Originally posted by .::Tin Can::.
Looks like he wasnt so bad a president after all!

Tell you what.

If Bush invades 2 more countries, I'll buy you all a drink, k?

bosch beer right?

[Kazan]

jsut because people like him doesn't make him a bad president

it just means they don't know better

[MatthewPapa]

Kerry lost. Bush won fair and square this time. Nothing to contest.
End of story.

Bush voters are not brainwashed.

[redmenace]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=694&u=/ap/20041103/ap_on_el_pr/eln_tv_exit_polls_1&printer=1

[Kazan]

Originally posted by MatthewPapa
Bush voters are not brainwashed.

no - just proven (over and over and over again) that you don't actually know a damn thing about the issues

you think things like

*"There were WMD in Iraq when we invaded" (Proven False by the Duelfer Report)
*"There was a Link between Osama and Saddam" (Proven False by The Duelfer Report)
*"Terrorists hate our freedom" (They hate us for our foreign policy)
*"The world is safer today" (Every intellegience agency on the planet - even our own - says the opposite)

and so on and so forth

[MatthewPapa]

Whatever.
I am not going to try and convince you otherwise, Kaz.

Obviously the results must be very upsetting to you.

However, dont brand Bush voters ignorant pigs because theyre not.

[Rictor]

So what reason is there to vote for him? I'm assuming you're not a rich industrialist with ties to the military-industrial complex, right?

Seriously, I genuinely am interested to know, why do you support him?

[MatthewPapa]

Here are just a few reasons.
Bush holds my opinion in these matters.

Same sex marriage
Issues like prayer in the schools or abortion
stem-cell research/cloning
Strong commader in chief who sends clear message to enemies
Tax Breaks
What he has done for the economy (yes, he has improved it believe it or not)
National Security

Just to name a few.
Dont criticize me, you asked and I told you. You cant change my mind, just like I probably couldnt change yours.

[Rictor]

I'm not trying to change your mind, I'm trying to understand it.
Alright, would you mind elaborating on national security (foreign policy, war on terrorism, all that stuff) and tax breaks (since they don't really do anything for you, if you're just an average joe)

On issues like same-sex marriage and religion, OK fine, you have your beliefs and they don't have to be logical, but foreign policy is at least to some degree based on logic. And your opinions just seem to be...hmmm, well reasonable.

For example, could you explain why you think that the best way to fight terrorism is thorugh force, and not through taking away their support base, which exists because of specific policies? You surely realize that for every one you kill, two more will take their place, because the more you fight them the more they will reists, and trust me, there's more of them than you can kill.

What I'm trying to do is understand the mind of Americans, and specifically Bush supporters, cause I just can't imagine why someone would vote for tha guy.

[Kazan]

Originally posted by MatthewPapa
Here are just a few reasons.
Bush holds my opinion in these matters.

Originally posted by MatthewPapa
Same sex marriage

Violation of the US Constitution -- Shuving your religion down everyone else's throats

YOU FASCIST

Originally posted by MatthewPapa
Issues like prayer in the schools

Protection of YOUR RIGHTS along with EVERYONE ELSES

A child may pray in school (so long as they're not being disruptive -- ie being loud)
A teacher may not lead a prayer - because they're acting as a representative of the US government.  

This is protecting your rights jackass

Anyone who tells you "Some kid was harassed by the teachers for praying in school" is full of **** - hasn't happened, never will happen.

Originally posted by MatthewPapa
or abortion

Violation of the US Constitution to ban abortion
Shuving your religion down other peoples throats

YOU FASCIST

Originally posted by MatthewPapa
stem-cell research/cloning

Shuving your religion down other peoples throats

YOU FASCIST

Originally posted by MatthewPapa
Strong commader in chief who sends clear message to enemies

His clear message: We're inept!

He doesn't know how to fight a war worth a **** - there are MORE terrorists now than there were four years ago

Originally posted by MatthewPapa
Tax Breaks

60%+ of which go to 1% of the population

Worst economy in recent history
Highest government deficits in history (singlehanded did more deficit spending then EVERY previous president COMBINED)

Oh - and tax cuts for companies that send jobs overseas

Originally posted by MatthewPapa
What he has done for the economy (yes, he has improved it believe it or not)

Bull**** - he has HARMED the economy

Originally posted by MatthewPapa
National Security

Like how he wants to leave the borders insecure, how he doesn't want to check all incoming cargo freight - how he has the worst security record in history

Originally posted by MatthewPapa
Dont criticize me, you asked and I told you. You cant change my mind, just like I probably couldnt change yours.

I'll criticize you all you want for your soemtimes naive and OFTEN FASCIST positions

[Rictor]

cool it Kaz. This is not the way to have a dialog. I'm interested in why he think the way he does and so should you. You think you're going to change people's mind by callingn them fascists, in all caps no less?

Even if you disagree with him: know thy enemy.
I understand where you're coming from, though I do not agree 100%, but I can't comprehend his position, which is why I want him to explain.

[MatthewPapa]

Holy crap, I am now a facist!  
Thats news to me.

Thanks Rictor for helping Kaz from crapping a brick onto me. I am through with this thread.

If anyone really wants to know my reasons you can PM me and I will get back to you on it. As for this public stuff, its getting nowhere.

[Bobboau]

well, the general though not entierly historicly acurate deffinition of the word facist is a right wing authoritarian.

so if you believe that a right wing beilife (or system of beliefes) should be imposed on a population of potentualy unwilling people you are a facist.
so is it the government's job to ensure that the population adheres to a conservitive standard?
or lets say the exact same thing useing amseing new speak
so is it the governments job to ensure the protection of traditional values?
are you in favor of denying someone the right to persue a life of happiness? what about if they are gay?