[Genryu]

No beef with the american people, it's american society that I want to *****slaps. I mean, rampant disinformation anyone ? Last I heard, at least 50% of the population still believed there was link between 9/11 and Iraq, when it has been repeatedly proved that there wasn't, and that a link in general between al-quaeda and iraq was more than grasping at straw.
Plus the fact that people approve of the privatisation of health care and retirement still make no sense for me. All it would take is another financial fall, and all your social advantage would be down the drain. I prefer having assurance that I will have these advantages, thank you. I've been to China, when health care is non-existant for most, due to the fact that they can't pay for it, and believe me, this isn't pretty. And it's the road that America is currently taking, so I prefer to warn you in advance.
And lastly, I'm still afraid of a president, in a seculiar nation, who doesn't really understand separation of faith with decision-making.
Sorry for not giving a name, but if someone of my family still have to travel to USA, I'd like for them not to be arrested and interrogated at the airport

[Liberator]

Genryu, Iraq was a much a part of the larger "War on Terror" campaign.  

Did they **** up trying to explain why we went in?  Yes.
Was it wrong?  HEEEEEEEELLLLLL NO!

Also, I would be afraid of a leader who didn't admit that he prays regularly.  And it's not a separation of faith from decision making, it's a separation of government from favoring one religion over another, and that's all it is.

Explain to me exactly how you can make a decision without faith anyway?  Any decision requires faith that it will turn out okay, either by chance or divine influence.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Liberator
Genryu, Iraq was a much a part of the larger "War on Terror" campaign.  

Did they **** up trying to explain why we went in?  Yes.
Was it wrong?  HEEEEEEEELLLLLL NO!

Also, I would be afraid of a leader who didn't admit that he prays regularly.  And it's not a separation of faith from decision making, it's a separation of government from favoring one religion over another, and that's all it is.

Explain to me exactly how you can make a decision without faith anyway?  Any decision requires faith that it will turn out okay, either by chance or divine influence.

'War on Terror'...what a load of bollocks that is.

A decision based on the cold hard evidence is always more reliable than one based upon faith.  And, of course, a decision based upon religious faith is very likely to conflict with other religions / aetheism in a discriminatory way - if a decision based on this sort of faith is best, then surely Iran or the Taliban are the model you want the US to follow?

[Sigma957]

Well I find that in general I havn't got a problem with americans. Yes your government is arrogant, thinking its better than everyone else. I get  the impression that everyone else has to conform to your government wishes or else. Maybe because the american people are too patriotic at times and the government uses that to their advantage to get you (americans) on their side no matter what the consequences are. If you arn't with us then you are against us sort of attitude.   Well that is my general impression I get while the general  down to earth american  is ok  its the government polices that need to be cleaned up.

[Zarax]

My personal opinion of american is that they are fine as people, byt they are starting to lack openness and curiosity in a worrysome way, like they satiated their thirst for knowledge once for all...
This makes also them pretty vulnerable to disinformation, in a way that hiding the bad messenger has been set as a standard.
You really need to study more history, geography and foreign culture at school ;-)
You can quote me as Marco from Sardinia.

[Genryu]

Originally posted by Liberator
Genryu, Iraq was a much a part of the larger "War on Terror" campaign.  

Did they **** up trying to explain why we went in?  Yes.
Was it wrong?  HEEEEEEEELLLLLL NO!

Excuuuuuse me, but Iraq was one of the only secular, not-terrorist-backing regime in the middle east. It was a dictature, people were dying, on that I agree. But it had nothing on the war on terror as seen by americans. Yes, they sent money to the family of palestinians blowing themselves up, but Saudi Arabia was FUNDING them, and I don't see America goign there to blow things up. In short, what many people reproach to the bush administration is rampant hypocrisy in their reason for going to war.

Also, I would be afraid of a leader who didn't admit that he prays regularly.  And it's not a separation of faith from decision making, it's a separation of government from favoring one religion over another, and that's all it is.

And why would an a leader not praying would be a bad thing ? I mean, from all western leader, the majority of them doesn't pray, goes to church, etc... and I don't think you can call all of them bad leaders.
See aldo for the rest of what I think.

Explain to me exactly how you can make a decision without faith anyway?  Any decision requires faith that it will turn out okay, either by chance or divine influence.

Or you can analyse the fact, think about how your action will influence the problem, and go from here.

[GoulMeister]

the reasons for invading iraq were false and the war was for oil but at least it got rid of saddam, if bush really wanted to stop this terrorism he would have attacked the scource of it money Saudi Arabia, but bush is too buddy buddy with them to do that.

Sign the pettition now NUKE Saudi Arabia

[Clave]

Every argument ends with 'lets nuke someone'

Well, I've had enough!!

The next person to say 'nuke' will get err... nuked...  

OK, I am going to rethink this....

Anyway, the USA is like fat Godzilla, just lurching around mindlessly breaking stuff.

Lovely people mind you, just don't invite them for tea....

[Rand al Thor]

Another Irish view.

First I just gotta say to Liberator.

Making decisions without a religious influence? Faith and religion have probably been the number one cause of most war, murder, proscecution, genocide, and political and social inequality in human history.

I've been to America, New York, working for a summer (on the J1 visa; its a big Irish college tradition, but no more evidently with the ludicrously overbearing security measures) and I have no problem with the people. Sure they can be loud, obnoxious, ignorant, selfish and stupid. Like most people but unfortunately, maybe because America's power only makes it seem so, they seem to be all these things abit more than most others. But then Ive met kind, generous, funny, friendly, and well informed americans as well. And this was only in four cities, main NY.

Bush on the other hand is officially a reformed addict, to which substance is open to debate, and now a religious evangelical. THIS IS A MAN WHO NEEDS SOMETHING MORE THAN HIMSELF TO HOLD ON TO. Its the greatest sign of weakness. Theres nothing wrong with religion, it guides decisions and gives us generally a good moral message. But it cannot be applied as a blanket ace card. Saying 'God bless America' doesnt give Bush moral authority or validation on any of his actions. Its exactly the same as Bin Laden saying 'Allah willing'. These two people have more in common than they'll admit. I'll only say, and this will probably make me the enemy of every American on the board, that I have slightly more respect for Bin Laden than Bush. I despise the man and his actions, and given the opportunity would strike him dead for the future victims of his actions, but he has, at least according to his beliefs, taken the virtuous path and a life of danger and what would seem to be now, great discomfort, instead of hanging at home with his rich family.

In reelecting Bush, Americans have again signed up for the selfish and I gotta think in relation to their world position, stupidly blind action. I say stupid because this is a man who has neglected the lower class majority of his country and allowed the biggest foreign strike since Pearl Harbour. AND YET AMERICANS SAY THEY FEEL SAFER WITH HIM IN THE WHITEHOUSE! The 9/11 (or 11/9 as we would say it (it does lack that ring though)) attack was a result of decades of biased and unjust foreign policy in the middle east due to Republican and Democrat alike. Bush has embarked on a policy that will deepen this Arab hate and resentment 100 fold. I really think that he's making the world a much more dangerous place. And we're all going to pay for it.

Well thats my longest rant so far by a long shot. I hope you all read it if you're going to rip into me and try and see what I mean.

[Knight Templar]

Originally posted by Liberator
Genryu, Iraq was a much a part of the larger "War on Terror" campaign.  

Did they **** up trying to explain why we went in?  Yes.
Was it wrong?  HEEEEEEEELLLLLL NO!

Also, I would be afraid of a leader who didn't admit that he prays regularly.  And it's not a separation of faith from decision making, it's a separation of government from favoring one religion over another, and that's all it is.

Explain to me exactly how you can make a decision without faith anyway?  Any decision requires faith that it will turn out okay, either by chance or divine influence.

Shut the **** up. This isn't a political debate. It's his ****ing opinion. Read the first damn post and bugger off.

Also goes for the rest of you. No rebuttals.

Please.

[Martinus]

[color=66ff00]Pretty much everything Black Wolf said.

I always remember this quote:
America is an enormous frosted cupcake in the middle of millions of starving people."
  --  Gloria Steinem

I don't completely agree with it, there are horrific numbers of americans living below the poverty line, the moneyholders have all the control and sate the masses with an illusion of democracy and choice.

Americans get to choose whoever's got enough money to get into office. Those people are put there effectively by doing favours for the corrupt money owners who want to sack other countries for oil, make money building weapons, tell you what food to eat, tell you what music, or film, or television show to watch, and they do this with a smile and a handshake that makes you believe that it was you that chose.

Ultimately america will either kill itself or kill all of us in it's death throes if it continues on the path it has been following.
[/color]

[Rand al Thor]

Gotta agree with that. America is becoming more and more facist by the day, at least in regard to certain minorities, i.e. people of an Arabic heritage. I say this because citizens rights are being weathered away in favour of the state (read the patriot act and others I probably havent heard of).

Only difference in this case is that the state is now being controlled by corporations instead of itself being the top of the pile. Its all leading to people not mattering. Its already happened in 'far away' and 'out of sight' nations and is starting to reach back to the source too.

I sound like a Doomday sayer but its happening. As Bush himself has quoted ,'The price of Freedom is constant vigilance'. But thats worth nothing if we let ourselves be told where and against who to direct that vigilance while ignoring all others.

[01010]

I believe that knowing your enemy means knowing the ones both at home and overseas. I believe a lot of Americans have forgotten this.

[KARMA]

never been in usa, so it's hard to reply trying to making a serious discussion.
All the European countries have millennia of history. Even when they are "young" as a State (Italy for example). This is history, and I don't mean a simple succession of facts, is the history of the western society, and it goes from the greek polis to the roman empire, the barbaric invasions, the new raise of rome as religious capital, the renaissance, the Luther's reform, the french revolution, the world wars, the industrial revolution, communism.... and the birth of USA is one of those big chapters.
You are the product of those millenia of history exactly like us because we have the same fathers but more like if you are a relative who wanted to go away from his known world starting something completely new.
This history define what we are as individuals,  what is our role in our societies, the philosophy of states as organizations... even if we are not aware of it, and the results aren't the same for all the western societies, and I don't think that americans realize how different they are from many of the europeans, and viceversa, as europeans are often very different to each other (there are for example big  differences between catholic and protestan states).
Those differences are usually perceived in a negative way, and tends to vanish into a nationalistic beliefs, like when you as a fan of a football team judge the fans of another team.
I think that we live in a period of great transformations of the results of this history, those transformations are in act in your society but also, in a different manner, in Europe, althought we don't completely realise it, and they are causing a crisis of our old "weltanschaung" but it is easyer to see the problems of the neighbor than our owns.
There are many other reasons for all the misunderstandings between usa and europe, I just cleaned the surface, trying to go over the stereotypes of the american cowboys, stupid, ignorant, who believe that everything has a price, and the europeans weak, traitors etc etc
Personally I hope -but doubt so- that one day we'll go over those misunderstanding finding a way to learn from each other (and we need it badly!)... before we'll have to start learning chinese:)

[Rictor]

If you're intersted in the good old "Why do they hate us" question, I've just remembered a quote that sums it up nicely.

The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.
George Orwell

*shrug*

[Setekh]

In the circles I frequent, the US is respected as a powerful example of industrial and military might as much as it is resented for being responsible for so much world conflict. Particularly with regard to Australia - it seems that our government loves to follow America wherever it leads, and yet we are punished in trade agreements that really harm the export market for our farmers. Generally it seems reasonable to believe in Sydney that the US has no interest in helping anyone in the world - everyone else can pretty much wither and die, so long as the US continues to prosper. It's pretty negative, and I don't like this attitude toward the US, but there it is in plain sight.

- Eddie Woo

[Rictor]

Hmm, if Australia (and Canada), both relatively powerful Western nations have trouble dealing with the US on trade issues (specifically, the issue of imports and impact of free trade), imagine how much trouble some impoverished third world nation has. I often think that if Canada were located somewhere in Latin America, it would long ago have had a puppet government set up, after years of oppression been overthrown, replaced by a legitimate government which would finally have been forced to accept foreign rule and "structural readjustment" plans.

But I digress....

[Setekh]

It's a valid point, Rictor. With the amount of trouble it causes, it's only a matter of time - decades, centuries - before it all comes crashing down.

[Clave]

Yep, who would have thought that the USSR would disintegrate? but it did.  "The bigger they are, the harder they fall"  And yes, it's not a valid comparison, but the US contains the seeds of it's own destruction.  It will be financial, not political though......

[aldo_14]

There's no such thing as an equal relationship with a superpower.... the likes of the UK / Australia, are just hoping for a few happy scraps to fall from the table.

I think the only real complaint I can have against the US, is that it (i.e. the government, usually regardless of the actual party in charge) seems to have a very insular attitude which means that international opinion is often ignored or brushed aside as irrelevant.  And there is nothing more galling to a people as to be treated as invisible.

Like all countries, the US has both faults and good points.  But I think the sheer size of the country, means that its faults affect the entire worlds view, whereas - for example - that's not a problem that affects the UK.