[Kazan]

Originally posted by ionia23
yeah.  You may be touting such open-minded ideals as 'government staying out of the bedroom' and 'free speech', but heaven forbid someone wears a crucifix in your presence.  End of the freakin' world.

We're not all gay-bashing racist Klansmen, you know.  Not all of us.

contrary to your believe i have numerous christian friends - and i don't discuss religion with them regularily

of course they're not the type to try and force it on others - like libby and mongoose are

[Kazan]

Originally posted by ngtm1r
You, Kaz, amuse the hell out of me with your constant claims of theocracy and facism. Are you on crack? Without severe restructuring of the government, this is an impossiblity. That's why the government was set up the way it was.

keep telling yourself this


not all fascism looks like adolf

Originally posted by ngtm1r
More to the point, you remind me very, very much of those Kerry supporters who tried to convince us the draft was coming back if Bush got relected.

The ones that said "how else can bush repopulate the army?"

or the ones that recognize that we already have a back-door draft (ie people not being let off when they're scheduled.. like my brother was)


 

Originally posted by ngtm1r
That was absolute bull**** and everyone with enough neurons to form a synapse knew it.

no - that remains to be seen

Originally posted by ngtm1r
So is this. I am a Roman Catholic. I am a Republican. I don't want this.

then you better start listening to what bush is saying and what his congressional chronies are doing


 

Originally posted by ngtm1r
Neither does a majority of Congress, or a majority of the United States. Go find a real issue.

So i suppose things that are actually happening, and that it can be demonstrated that they're actually happening "isn't a real issue"

the fact that every human rights organization in the US is screaming about the current administration moving us tword theocracy isn't "a real issue"


wake up and smell the roses my friend

[NGTM-1R]

And you, Kazan, who also have done the same thing repeatedly in this very thread?

All of you, seriously. Go find a real issue. This is not one, and never will be. It'd never make it through Congress.

[Kazan]

Originally posted by ionia23
Surprisingly, he didn't vote for George Bush.  When asked why, he replied that "He crosses the line between Church and State too much.  When you do that, you are one step closer to becoming Iran"

upstanding citizen.. more republicans should be like him

[Kazan]

Originally posted by ngtm1r
And you, Kazan, who also have done the same thing repeatedly in this very thread?

All of you, seriously. Go find a real issue. This is not one, and never will be. It'd never make it through Congress.

this particular bill will not make it - you are correct


however this issue of religious infiltration of our government and the slow move tword theocratic fascism is a real one - that is demonstrably happening

[NGTM-1R]

And I say again: without severe, probably violent restructuring of the government, such an end result is also demonstrably impossible.

That is why the government was constructed the way it was. The US governmental system is remarkably good at maintaining the status quo in regards to itself. That is why it has proved so stable.

[Kazan]

assert that all you want - it's not true ngtm1r

just because our government was setup to preclude the rise of fascism/etc as well as possible that doesn't mean it's immune

look into what fascism actually is, then look into the movement that is supporting bush, and bush's actions

go, look, very carefully

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by ngtm1r
And I say again: without severe, probably violent restructuring of the government, such an end result is also demonstrably impossible.

That is why the government was constructed the way it was. The US governmental system is remarkably good at maintaining the status quo in regards to itself. That is why it has proved so stable.

The nature of totalitarianism is such that it slips in unnoticed.   Who was it that said 'the price of freedom is eternal vigilence"?  Well, this is when you need to stay vigilent.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by ngtm1r
All of you, seriously. Go find a real issue. This is not one, and never will be. It'd never make it through Congress.

You're missing the point. Regardless of whether this makes it through congress or not It should never have even been proposed!

[Jetmech Jr.]

Exactly, IMO.

[ionia23]

Originally posted by karajorma


You're missing the point. Regardless of whether this makes it through congress or not It should never have even been proposed!

Whether or not it should or should not have been proposed isn't the problem.  Actually, the fact that it was proposed in the first place isn't a problem either.  

And therein lies the great dilemna in 'free speech'.  You can say, think, and propose pretty much anything you want to.  Whether it is agreed with, resisted, argued, acted upon, totally different matter.  

Someone could try to take to the floor a constitutional amendment overturning the right of blacks to vote if they wanted to.  Wouldn't get very far, but they could certainly try.

Think of it as a balance:  one group can propose a federal law allowing gay marriage.  by that same token, another group can propose making the practice of homosexuality a federal, capital offense.  Sure, dealing with the Bill O'Reillys and Pat Buchannans of the world is a royal pain in the ass, but if the law covers them then you have nothing to worry about.

That is...until they become the majority.

[Kazan]

/me notices ionia ignoring my post that challenges her assumptions about me

[icespeed]

just curious, do we have anyone on hlp who is or will be planning to make a career as a politician?

[Kazan]

not as far as i know

[NGTM-1R]

Originally posted by Kazan
assert that all you want - it's not true ngtm1r

just because our government was setup to preclude the rise of fascism/etc as well as possible that doesn't mean it's immune

look into what fascism actually is, then look into the movement that is supporting bush, and bush's actions

go, look, very carefully

I am. Show me the SA or Ernest Rohm and I might start believing you. Until then, shut up.

All facist nations, and most theocracies, arise because of governmental instabilty and widespread unhappiness with the current form of government. The US government is decidely stable, and the majority of the people living here are decidely happy with it as it is. This was not true of Germany in the 1920s and 1939s. Nor so for Italy. Or more recently, Iran.

In fact, the only instabilty as of now that in theory could cause the overthrow of the US government is from those on the left side of the aisle. Unless you intend to set up a theocracy or facist government, you simply cannot make the case.

Facism does not arrive silently in the night. It comes stomping in with all the silent grace of a gutshot elephant. Look at Hitler's rise to power, or that of Mussolini. They gave their people plenty of warning about what was coming. So did Khomenini.

Democracies since the birth of Christ have come in two main types: either they last less then a decade or they last forever. Once entrenched, the democratic mindset is not easily dislodged. While exceptionally vunerable it is formative stages, a democracy that survives those has much better longevity prospects then any other form of government. It takes an outside force, an invasion, to upset a long-standing democracy.

What Caeser did to the Roman Republic is no longer possible today. People see too much. People know too much. Mass media ensures that. And unless you are willing to compare the exceptional man that Caeser was to George W. Bush, and the comparison is favorable for Bush, your case falls apart.

I believe I've found the liberal equivalent of a survivalist militaman.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by icespeed
just curious, do we have anyone on hlp who is or will be planning to make a career as a politician?

Who lies mos & bestt?

[Kazan]

ngtm1r: you haven't the slightest clue what you're talking about

"Fascism does not arrive silently in the night" tips anyone wary off to the that fact [ie the fact that you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about]

it's well passed the silent stage now btw

[Omniscaper]

US culture war thickens.....

[vyper]

[q]just curious, do we have anyone on hlp who is or will be planning to make a career as a politician?[/q]

Until I left Highschool I was. Then apathy and reality set in and I realized it's really not gonna happen - people don't want the truth, they want something they can put to the back of their minds as they go get pished after the latest football game.

[Moonsword]

Originally posted by vyper

Until I left Highschool I was. Then apathy and reality set in and I realized it's really not gonna happen - people don't want the truth, they want something they can put to the back of their minds as they go get pished after the latest football game. [/B]

Sounds about right, unfortunately.