[Eviscerator]

Project heads of what? Campaigns?

[TopAce]

Obviously.

[Eviscerator]

Whatever. With so many things going on, of course it is obvious.

I still do not see how anybody can force you to do anything.

If you are going to volunteer to work on a project, is it not your responsibility to insure that you have the tools and resources (like a good comp) to do the job? Why yes, I think it is.

Therefore, complaining about the work of another modder, just because you lack the capability to use his work, is both useless and silly.

[Unknown Target]

You don't get what he's saying. If the project lead of a campaign makes it so that the campaign uses the super-detail ships, and doesn't provide a low-poly alternative, then if you want to play that campaign, you will have to use the super-detail ships.

[NGTM-1R]

So don't play the campaign.

Or get off the mod team, if that's much of a problem.

[TopAce]

It is impressive how quickly this project went off-topic.

[Moonsword]

@Lynx: This coming from a WC modeler?  Dear god, man, have you seen the errors in some of those models?!

@Woo: Very, very right.  Normal capships can be a pain in HTL if they've got a lot of textures... that thing would knok my framerate to about 5... when it's normally about 30.

[Kie99]

Let's see some big missiles coming out of those engine pods.

[Striker]

Originally posted by ngtm1r
So don't play the campaign.

Or get off the mod team, if that's much of a problem.

How'd you like to sit around, hearing about how great mods like Inferno or BWO, or even how awesome SCP is, and know that your comp could never run it. You are basically alienated from the community. It's a *****.

[Eviscerator]

Off topic? I think not. The discussion at hand directly affects the topic of Raptor's wonderful ship.

Striker: I agree, it IS a *****. But on the other hand, you have to keep up with your hardware to keep up with software outside this community. REAL developers are not going to hold your hand and wait around for you. No, they are going to do everything possible to put out a state-of-the-art piece of work (and often fail, but I digress). Why should this community be any different?

To expect otherwise is totally unrealistic.

[Unknown Target]

Actually, it IS totally realistic to think that (for a commercial game developer). Why do you think PC games are just NOW starting to be able to compete with console games? We had the power before, why did we never use it? Because game developers had to curtail their usage of new technology, to keep their games runnable on older systems.
Why is it realistic to think this only for a commercial developer? Because commercial developers have to reach everyone: that's their bread and butter. So if they dont' reach the low-end crowd, they'll cut out half their profits. However, a mod project, while it would be nice, doesn't have to do it because he doesn't have anything particularly important, at least monetarily riding on it.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by TopAce
Yes, but people prefer higher res textures over performance. If you ask me, Raptor should use only one texture, because I prefer performance myself than prettiness.

It is, however, a monumental pain in the arse to manage a single extremely hi-res texture, not least in terms of the space it takes up in memory when you are editing it (including the layer details and the modification stack in photoshop, for example).  It becomes very difficult to organise it too; it's easier to maximise the space use ( simply have more 'room' to arrange small maps into position) and to a degree to ensure uniform shading, but it's also a lot more difficult to actually keep track of what texture area is on what part of the model.

The last capship I made uses 3 1024x1024 & 1 512*512 'templated' map and an additional 512*512 tiled map (plus a 512*512 map for the turrets.  I made a simple compromise between overall texture size, texture numbers and the ease and efficiency of creating said textures.

(Even at that, it's not especially high-res in game; i.e. not 'pin sharp')

Now, what I'm working on - in general - at the moment is targeted to be as close to 'cutting edge' as possible.  If people can't run it, it isn't my problem; my problem is getting the best visual quality of mod ingame, that can run on my PC.

[Eviscerator]

Originally posted by Unknown Target
Actually, it IS totally realistic to think that (for a commercial game developer). Why do you think PC games are just NOW starting to be able to compete with console games? We had the power before, why did we never use it? Because game developers had to curtail their usage of new technology, to keep their games runnable on older systems.
Why is it realistic to think this only for a commercial developer? Because commercial developers have to reach everyone: that's their bread and butter. So if they dont' reach the low-end crowd, they'll cut out half their profits. However, a mod project, while it would be nice, doesn't have to do it because he doesn't have anything particularly important, at least monetarily riding on it.

Just NOW beginning to compete with consoles? I think you have that the other way around. PC games commanded the *lion's share* of the market as well as technological advancement until very recently. It is only recent market shift that has pushed the PC to the back seat in earnings potential for games. The numerous layoffs and dismantling of over two dozen PC game developers in recent years is testimony to this.

I partially agree with you on the rest. However, I am sure you know as well as I that PC game developers never neutered themselves to reach an entire audience. You had to remain at at least the industry standard if you wanted to compete. When we made Starsiege at Dynamix, for example, we made it for mid to high P2's. We left the P1 crowd in the rain because doing otherwise would have meant an inferior product. Look at the latest games on the market now, like DOW and R:TW. If you are running a P3, forget about playing them. If you are running a card less than a 9000, forget about it again. Hell, even when HW2 can out ages ago you could run it for nuthin on a P3. That is why I upgraded to a P4.

As top-grade systems become more affordable, as they are these days, developers no longer have to cater to such a wide audience to make a profit. The evidence we are seeing coming out of the workshops proves this more than anything that I can relate on a stupid internet forum.

[Eviscerator]

Originally posted by Unknown Target
Actually, it IS totally realistic to think that (for a commercial game developer). Why do you think PC games are just NOW starting to be able to compete with console games? We had the power before, why did we never use it? Because game developers had to curtail their usage of new technology, to keep their games runnable on older systems.
Why is it realistic to think this only for a commercial developer? Because commercial developers have to reach everyone: that's their bread and butter. So if they dont' reach the low-end crowd, they'll cut out half their profits. However, a mod project, while it would be nice, doesn't have to do it because he doesn't have anything particularly important, at least monetarily riding on it.

Just NOW beginning to compete with consoles? I think you have that the other way around. PC games commanded the *lion's share* of the market as well as technological advancement until very recently. It is only recent market shift that has pushed the PC to the back seat in earnings potential for games. The numerous layoffs and dismantling of over two dozen PC game developers in recent years is testimony to this.

I partially agree with you on the rest. However, I am sure you know as well as I that PC game developers never neutered themselves to reach an entire audience. You had to remain at at least the industry standard if you wanted to compete. When we made Starsiege at Dynamix, for example, we made it for mid to high P2's. We left the P1 crowd in the rain because doing otherwise would have meant an inferior product. Look at the latest games on the market now, like DOW and R:TW. If you are running a P3, forget about playing them. If you are running a card less than a 9000, forget about it again. Hell, even when HW2 can out ages ago you could run it for nuthin on a P3. That is why I upgraded to a P4.

As top-grade systems become more affordable, as they are these days, developers no longer have to cater to such a wide audience to make a profit. The evidence we are seeing coming out of the workshops proves this more than anything that I can relate on a stupid internet forum.

[Raptor]

Ah, sorry no major updates this time round.  Distacted (lots of new books to read)

Well, we've got a good discussion going here haven't we? Now to answer certain points, in order of post:

@Topace:As it's meant to become the flagship mod of the campain I have planned, I kind of have to finish it, don't I;)

@Raa:The mega map is really only for doing the texturing.  It will use smaller maps ingame.

@Grimloq:Well, 'Freespaceyness' is defined in the eye of the beholder, isn't it?  How can a group define something that is highly subjective?

@Kosh:I based the Saturn (the Hera's first incarnation) on the Hades, so no surprise that there's a resemblence(SP?)

@Getter Robo G:Thanks man!:D

@Mitac:It has a chin, only instead of engines, it houses the fighter launchbay;7

@HIG:Glad you approve;)

@Kietotheworld:No, no missile out of the engines.  BUT under the prow are two ISBM (Intersteller Ballistic Missile) tubes.......with 2500 Mgt warheads;7:devil:

A little point.  I'm planing on this being both LOD1 and the basis of LOD0.  LOD0 would have a submodel, called 'Detail', which would include things like raised hull plates (I do know that the flanks are very flat), destroyed turrets, pipes etc...

Oh, and I got a PM from some who asked if he could use this ship in a Fanfiction Crossover! Don't who with yet, but at least it will give me an excuse to sort out the tech room info:D

[Nuke]

who ripped off my ragnorok design?

[Getter Robo G]

Wouldn't that be Squaresoft? FF8...

[Raptor]

Smallish update here.  Sorry it took so long, but after I lost  some work that took me a couple of hours, I didn't really feel up to it:(





Done a few more deck lights, added some detail the sides of the engines, and have begun to remove the dark edging.

I'll start doing panelling soon;)

[Getter Robo G]

Holy **** on a shingle! I don't think this thing is gonna run on my system!!! I love it so much

[TopAce]

It's an overkill. Simply too much of details ...