[Flipside]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/kron/archive/2000/08/22/northpole.DTL&type=science


More on polar ice melting from the Associated Press:

(08-19) NEW YORK (AP)

For the first time in 50 million years, visitors to the North Pole can see something extraordinary: water.

The thick ice that covers the Arctic Ocean at the North Pole has melted, leaving a mile-wide stretch of water at the top of the world, The New York Times reported Saturday.

Two recent visitors to the pole told the Times about the unexpected sight.

"I don't know if anybody in history ever got to 90 degrees north to be greeted by water, not ice," said Malcolm C. McKenna, a paleontologist at the American Museum of Natural History.

The water could be the result of global warming, although there is a debate among experts about the cause. Some believe it could simply be a natural occurrence rather than the result of a ``greenhouse effect'' caused by manmade pollution and increased concentrations of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere.

Scientists have said that the last time the North Pole had this much water was 50 million years ago.

For oceanographer James C. McCarthy, who visited the pole earlier this month on a tourist cruise, the disappearing ice was a cause for concern. Passengers aboard the cruise were shocked to find water when there has long been only ice.

- That was four years ago, apparently the amount of ice has decreased even more since then.

[Zarax]

Holy ****...
Time to get the US to sign the damned Kioto treaty...

[Nuke]

ice ages are caused by cycles in plate techtonics, temps will rise for a time and eventually they will start to fall again, any geologist will tell you this. its just the cycles are quite long and far exceede our records. also the sun goes through 11 year cycles. which no doubt correlate with the temp records.

we are quite arrogant to think that we can harm something as big as the earth.

i say we get several tonnes of frozen deutrium and a small nuclear device, take them to antarctica and have a little penguin bbq. and flood the earth while you are at it

[Flipside]

hehehehe!

Well, Ice Ages are caused by a great many things, the Earths orbit is not identical every year, there is a massive cycle to it which actually takes us closer to the Sun and then further from where we are currently orbiting for about 5000 years before moving back in again. It's not very far in Astronomical terms, not enough to effect adaptable humans at least, but it does cause knock-on environmental effects, one of which is thought to be the Ice Ages.

http://www.physci.wsc.ma.edu/young/hgeol/geoinfo/timeline/iceages/ice.html - Quick reference

[Grug]

Hmm interesting...
Take me a while to read through all this though...

[Nuke]

ok so i was abit innacurate with what i said, but plate tectonics does play a role. you see when co2 levels go up, plant health increases. we can cut down trees all we want but they are just gonna grow better in the higher co2 levels. likewise overal animal health diminishes thus decreasing natural co2 output. natue is self correcting. a single volcanic eruption puts out far more gasses than out cars or our factories could in a year. global waming occures by its self weather we help it or not. environmentalisim is not the answer.

[Liberator]

But it doesn't hurt.  We were created to be stewards of this world and we shouldn't not be as clean as possible just because it doesn't have a major impact.

[Nuke]

only if you believe in that creationisim crap

convert to nihilisim now! all you have to do is nothing.

[aldo_14]

Y'know, I don't think I've ever seen or heard of a situation where doing nothing has actually helped.

[Andreas]

Originally posted by Nuke
youd be supprised how common revolutions are and they havent changed much.

Yeah, I know I wasn't really serious about that revolution, either.

[Janos]

Originally posted by Nuke
ok so i was abit innacurate with what i said, but plate tectonics does play a role. you see when co2 levels go up, plant health increases. we can cut down trees all we want but they are just gonna grow better in the higher co2 levels. likewise overal animal health diminishes thus decreasing natural co2 output. natue is self correcting. a single volcanic eruption puts out far more gasses than out cars or our factories could in a year. global waming occures by its self weather we help it or not. environmentalisim is not the answer.

Biosphere is self-correcting, but I'd think several million years is a bit long time, considering human lifespan and so on. That's how long it has taken for biosphere to recover from various large-scale catastrophes, like the mysterious Permian mass extinction (though asteroids MIGHT have played a role). A quick question: what would happen to Britain and central Europe if global temperatures were to raise by 10 degrees C?*

The key point is this: Global temperature changes occur naturally. NO **** SHERLOCK. However, it does not mean that the recent increase in global temperatures doesn't have something to do with human activities.

*

Spoiler:

They would be desert.

[Tiara]

The only way to ensure the survival of the world; Skynet.



**** Humans, Termies own.

[Grug]

lol.

Scenario:
If they colonised the moon.
But just poluted everything without any hesitation.

Would anybody care?

I think that things should be focused on human survival. If we continued poluting the planet etc, Earth would survive and heal in time. But would we? Probably not.
So people like members of Greenpeace are fighting for a good cause (most of the time), but maybe for the wrong reasons...

[aldo_14]

Exactly.  It's not about saving the planet, it's about saving ourselves.

I'm sure if you, for example, looked at asthma levels in populated areas you'd find them skyrocketing over time as emissions increased.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by aldo_14
Exactly.  It's not about saving the planet, it's about saving ourselves.

I'm sure if you, for example, looked at asthma levels in populated areas you'd find them skyrocketing over time as emissions increased.

...ok, then assimilate our minds into one big Culture grade mind.

[Clave]

Originally posted by Flipside
The thick ice that covers the Arctic Ocean at the North Pole has melted, leaving a mile-wide stretch of water at the top of the world, The New York Times reported Saturday.

Melted... yes, that was what happened...












OK, I swear to take my drinks with no ice from now on....

[Flipside]

Originally posted by Grug
lol.

Scenario:
If they colonised the moon.
But just poluted everything without any hesitation.

Would anybody care?

I think that things should be focused on human survival. If we continued poluting the planet etc, Earth would survive and heal in time. But would we? Probably not.
So people like members of Greenpeace are fighting for a good cause (most of the time), but maybe for the wrong reasons...

I agree, however, as cold as this sounds, we have to look at ourselves realistically. What are the odds of mankind actually caring, as a race, about what it destroys, pollutes etc? About 4000 years of history suggest they are pretty low for quite a while yet. We WILL get the idea eventually, but probably not without a good few more years and the loss of about 2 Billion lives, that would probably make us be good for about 150 years, before sinking back into our old habits.

We need to look at who we are and how we think, and that is a far far bigger job alas

[Nuke]

Originally posted by Janos


Biosphere is self-correcting, but I'd think several million years is a bit long time, considering human lifespan and so on. That's how long it has taken for biosphere to recover from various large-scale catastrophes, like the mysterious Permian mass extinction (though asteroids MIGHT have played a role). A quick question: what would happen to Britain and central Europe if global temperatures were to raise by 10 degrees C?*

The key point is this: Global temperature changes occur naturally. NO **** SHERLOCK. However, it does not mean that the recent increase in global temperatures doesn't have something to do with human activities.

hey, im not the moron that decided hey, lets live on a ****ing island even though sea levels are rising none the less it wont be an immideate flooding. initially it will only affect the rich snobs that own property in the costal regons. i mean its not gonna be quick like the nuclear bombardment of antarctica would make it.

[Janos]

Originally posted by Nuke


hey, im not the moron that decided hey, lets live on a ****ing island even though sea levels are rising none the less it wont be an immideate flooding. initially it will only affect the rich snobs that own property in the costal regons. i mean its not gonna be quick like the nuclear bombardment of antarctica would make it.

what the christ

[Flipside]

It's a whole load of things, plate tectonics, orbit etc etc, you are quite correct Nuke. Indeed, it's even been suggested that one mass extinction was created by CO2 level rising because of too much life on the planet....