[an0n]

Originally posted by Bobboau
when we do that **** we get pissed at the people doing it and apologise, they video it and celebrate, there proud of it.

You mean like the missile-mounted camera footage that gets handed to the press? Or the Apache-mounted camera footage that gets handed to the press? Or the 'on the scene reporting' footage that gets handed to the press?

The only time American ever apologises for any wrong doing is when it gets caught and can't explain it away or blame it on a scapegoat.

The reason you don't here the Iraq freedom fighters going "It's just a few bad eggs doing the beheadings" is because they're ****ed anyway and they don't need to go cosying up to liberals for support in future elections and the legislative process.

[Flipside]

Originally posted by Bobboau

anyway, just becase blame was sucessfuly shifted to us means we have to act like we realy are to blame.

I understand what you mean Bobboau, I'm not trying to blame anyone, it's blame that started this whole disgusting state of affairs in the first place. I don't think America is any more guilty of atrocities than their opposites. I also think that one sides actions cannot justify the others either. The problem is that me believing it doesn't make one iota of difference, the people that do need to believe are the ones out there fighting and dying, an both sides.

I am just as uninclined to disbelive the propoganda of Terrorist groups as I am that of the Coalition, there lay my dilemma.

Edit : Considering yourselves 'right' does not justify doing what you know is 'wrong' on either side

[Bobboau]

yeah, that's what I was trying to say, being right doesn't give you the right to do wrong things.

[redsniper]

Originally posted by Col. Fishguts
NahNahNah.....has your mom never introduced you to the concept of "You broke it, you fix it!" ?

Now hold on a second. I can't even vote yet so I'm sure as hell not responsible for the Iraq war. It's not my fault we have an idiot president.

[Col. Fishguts]

It wasn't meant towards you, but towards the current US government.

[Genryu]

Originally posted by redmenace
Insurgents: Help us France help us Germany
France: Umm, how much are you willing to pay us, huhhuhhuh

You're kidding, right ? 'Cause I can make soooooo much comment on America being exactly like that or worse that it wouldn't even be funny.

[Genryu]

Originally posted by Deepblue
I wonder where you get your news... War is hell, but I don't see PURPOSEFUL civilian slaughtering and torture coming from the Coalition forces.

Abou grahib, anyone ?

[Bobboau]

and the people are currently being prosecuted by us for makeing those men dress up in womens clothes. when was the last time an glorious freedom fighter was punished by the noble resistence movement for beheading someone?

[Flipside]

When Terrorists murder a victim, who is guilty? the one holding the sword or the ones who did nothing to prevent it? Or are they all as guilty as each other?

Many people knew what was going on at Abu Ghraib and chose not to speak about it, how is their guilt any less than those who did the actual beating? I think it is good that these people are being prosecuted, but even in this particular episode, there are two equal and opposing views.

[Bobboau]

Originally posted by Flipside
When Terrorists murder a victim, who is guilty? the one holding the sword or the ones who did nothing to prevent it? Or are they all as guilty as each other?

the one holding the sword, and those who actively helped, like the guy who held the soon to die guy down and the guy who drove the car that picked the guy up. crimes of ommision are a whole order of magnatude smaller.

[Genryu]

Originally posted by Bobboau
and the people are currently being prosecuted by us for makeing those men dress up in womens clothes. when was the last time an glorious freedom fighter was punished by the noble resistence movement for beheading someone?

If a 'glorious freedom fighter', as you called them, was punished for going after the wrong guy, do you really think that they would leak this to any reporter ?
Never said that the rebels in Iraq were choir's boys, but after seeing what the Coalition did there, they simply can't continue to affirm having the higher moral ground. Which they continue to claim again and again.
BTW, wanna compare the 'victims' on each side ? Last I know, there shouldn't be more than 2500 on the Coalition side, compared to the 100000+ dead on the Iraqui side. And you wonder why the Coalition has problem in this country ?

[Flipside]

A fair enough point. However, it needs to borne in mind that these fanatics that commit the beheadings are (a) a tiny percentage of those you are fighting, most deaths have been either at the hands of suicide bombers or hit and run tactics. and (b) are as determined to find fault in America as their opposing equals are to find fault in them. That blindness will also make them ignore the fact that only a minute portion of the Iraqi population was tortured at Abu Ghraib, the word that makes the blood boil is not 'percentage' but 'torture'.

To them, the crime of omission won't be any different, because they don't want it to be, in exactly the same manner that the deaths of civilans who feel damned if they do and damned if they don't can seem 'justified' if you want to hard enough.

[Bobboau]

just becase they don't see something doesn't mean you can't

and there is a diference between claiming a high moral ground and claiming a less low one.

[Flipside]

Exactly! Theres no reason why either side cannot choose to see the crimes of their own people. And there are certainly those, on both sides, that can.

But where America has a huge judicial system that can protect it's informants and give new identities if peoples lives are threatened and law & order is, for the main part, maintained, in Iraq, they have nothing, they have men walking the streets with guns, it no longer matters who 'they' are, American or Insurgent, and you are more concerned about getting home to your wife and child, keeping your mouth shut and surviving another day.

Iraq has a beleagured Police force, and a frightened population, the deliberate attacks on 'collaborators' are designed to stress that further.

I know that at least the first beheading wasn't commited by an Iraqi. As for how many of the others were? I don't know.

[Gank]

Actually the resistance in Mosul has been executing people they catch kidnapping people, try and dig up a link for it later but it was in washington post article iirc.

http://www.freearabvoice.org/
thats the site of the Iraqi resistance, anything major they put out will be on there. they fact that this isnt and its heavy use of leftist buzz talk leads me to believe its a pile of ****e.
www.informationclearinghouse is crap anyways.

[diamondgeezer]

Stop using the U.S. dollar

LMFAO
__________________
Diamond Geezer keeps up to date via the BBC News website