[aldo_14]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/12/21/patents_dropped/

[Liberator]

Okay, so there's actually a fight going on to allow patents to enter the public domain after reasonable amount of time?

[IceFire]

What is it exactly?  I'm a little confused on the details.

[aldo_14]

The EU had planned on using the Fisheries and then Farming Comissions to push through laws which would affect the sotware industry; 3 specific problems are;

1. To be considered patentable, a computer-implemented invention must involve a so-called inventive step, that is, it must make a technical contribution. However, despite a tiny last-minute change to placate the Germans the directive does not define the term "technical", leaving the lawyers a lot of room to play in.

2. Patent holders are not required to make an all-comers general license available to parties who want to write software that interoperates with the patented process.

3. The draft allows for program claims, so that even supplying patented code, as opposed to running it on a computer, will be an infringement of the patent. This will make it impossible to post sections of code on websites, common practice in developer communities.

[IceFire]

Good for the Poles then.  Makes me even more proud of my heritage.

[an0n]

You remember losing to the Germans, right?

[Fr3z3r]

Originally posted by an0n
You remember losing to the Germans, right?

Losing a battle != losing a war, an0n.

Ice, where exactly did your ancestors live?

[an0n]

The Polish didn't win the war either. They lost, the government legged it and the Allies wiped the floor with the Germans.

Saying Poland won is like saying France won. They simply didn't.

[Kosh]

Germany wiped the floor with Poland. They fell even faster than France.

[.::Tin Can::.]

Who really cares who the Germans wiped the floor with? All that matters is that we used the Germans to mop up the mess latter on. :yes:

[Gank]

No you didnt the russians did.

[WMCoolmon]

Go Poland Minister of Science and Information Technology!

[Liberator]

Originally posted by Gank
No you didnt the russians did.

It was a team effort, the Americans/British didn't use their troops as fodder for their tanks and it slowed them down.  Patton could've been in Berlin weeks before if he hadn't been desupplied.

[Kosh]

The war would have lasted a lot longer if Hitler didn't take away soldiers and equipment from the eastern front. That allowed the Russians to break through the thin German lines rather easily. They were advancing 120 KM per day in some cases. It had nothing todo with the Americans/British not using their troops as fodder for their tanks. Their tanks were pieces of crap anyway.

[NGTM-1R]

The Germans could never have actually defeated the Red Army, but they could have inflicted casualities even Stalin would have balked at. To do so, however, they needed all their troops. That was the plan for the Ardennes offensive. It was Hitler's only hope; he might be able to defeat the western Allies, then make peace with the Russians. (Of course, it would have spelled ruin for Germany anyways, because then in the summer of 1945 the US 8th Airforce, secure in its bases in England, would have dropped an atomic bomb on Berlin.)

Ultimately, while the Wehrmacht bled on the Russian steppes, it died in the Ardennes and the Rhine River valley. That was where its best units and best equipment went, and that was where those units and equipment were destroyed.

Eisenhower refused to race the Russians to Berlin. Montgomery wanted to go. Patton wanted to go. They could have made it, too. Eisenhower asked Bradley what he thought it would cost in terms of casualities. Bradley said probably about a hundred thousand, which was an awful lot for a prestige objective that would have to be turned over to the Russians anyways, because of the decisions made at the Yalta conference. So Eisenhower said no, they weren't going to Berlin. And considering the experience of the Red Army in Berlin, Eisenhower surely made the right choice.

[WMCoolmon]

Originally posted by someone far wiser than I
Rule of Internet Politics Discussion 1: All internet politics discussions must involve a mention of or reference to Hitler or Nazi Germany

[IceFire]

Originally posted by an0n
The Polish didn't win the war either. They lost, the government legged it and the Allies wiped the floor with the Germans.

Saying Poland won is like saying France won. They simply didn't.

My grandfather, the only Polish relation I have, was with the Polish army during WWII.  During the opening weeks, they fought as best they could but were totally not prepared to face combined german infantry, tanks, mechanized everything, and the modernity of the Luftwaffe.

He escaped, he was in Egypt, Iraq, Israel, moved to England after the war...then moved to Canada.  Thats my family history (on one side, the other side has been in Canada for a while!).

That all said, and despite being occupied, the Polish put up a hell of a defense despite being outnumbered, out gunned, and totally unprepared for war.  Take the standard Polish fighter at the time.  The P.11.  Fixed gear, high wing, gull design, monoplane.  In 1932, it was the fastest most modern fighter in the world.  By 1938 it was obsolete.  The Bf-109 used by the Germans was the supreme fighter of that period (soon to be equaled by the likes of the British Spitfire).   In any case, the Polish managed to shoot down somewhere in the neighborhood of 200-300 Luftwaffe fighters and dive bombers.  Despite the fact that their planes had less than half the armament, armor, or speed of their opponents.  They did REALLY well.

Also, Poland was one of the first countries to kick out communism at the end of the cold war.

Although having little connection to my Polish roots, from what I can take from my grandpa (who lived to a very respectable age) Polish people are generally a fircely proud bunch.  Survivors.

[IceFire]

Originally posted by Kosh
Germany wiped the floor with Poland. They fell even faster than France.

Ever hear of the Phoney War?  The first year of WWII...France, Britian, and I submit even Germany was unprepared.  But Germany could have taken France down just as quickly as Poland...France was just as poorley prepared.

Remember, the depression was a major factor here.

[Fr3z3r]

Originally posted by an0n
The Polish didn't win the war either. They lost, the government legged it and the Allies wiped the floor with the Germans.

Fair enough, that's one point of view. Lost battles/wars are what happens when you are situated in Central Europe - politically the WORST place to be (well, maybe Israel can compete here... but we're talking about 1939).

Polish army - unprepared, poorly equipped and mobilized too late (in order "not to provoke Hitler") put up one hell of a fight, to be honest. The fact is, REGULAR army units fought to early 1940 using guerilla tactics. Then the "real" guerilla forces - AK, AL, GL and a couple of other formations - became a real pain in the ass for Germany.

Here are the most accurate loss statistics known to date:

Men:
Poland - ca. 200.000 (killed AND wounded)
Germany - 16343 killed, 27280 wounded, 320 missing

Armor:
Poland - 755
Germany - 993

Other vehicles:
Poland - ?
Germany - 11.000

Aircraft:
Poland - 300
Germany - 564

Artillery:
Poland - ?
Germany - 370

Firearms:
Poland - ?
Germany - 14620

You can safely assume that "?" means "excessive losses, probably close to 100%, because they were captured". Germans used much of the captured equipment later in the war (AT weaponry comes to mind).

Yes, Polish army was outnumbered, outclassed, unprepared (most of the units weren't on their designated positions on September 1st), chaotically commanded (no one expected the Blitzkrieg and Polish units lacked mobility). And I'm not trying to find an "excuse", just trying to show that the Polish September wasn't a "cakewalk" that Hitler planned it to be.

Just look at the losses again and then think WHY Hitler wasn't able to invade France straight away, in 1939. The fact that the Western Allies learned NOTHING from the September Campaign is another story.

[NGTM-1R]

The French just kinda crapped out, though. They gave up before the majority of their army could even see, much less fire at, a Germany soldier. Had they actually attempted to make a fight of it, they might have won. They actually had better equipment then the Wehrmacht did at that stage.