[Ford Prefect]

If I don't then the Army becomes a bunch of reprobates and cretins who aren't worthy of the responsibility we have placed with them.

That is what an army is. I expect this kind of thing to happen no matter who's involved, because everybody is the same. Unless the American military was created from genetically engineered human prototypes, designed to conform perfectly with conventional moral standards, it is going to be responsible for atrocities. When you put people in that kind of situation, they are going to show you with beautiful predictability just how weak they are. (Or, if you prefer, just how overwhelming the circumstances can be.)

[Singh]

errr......as bad as the US army is, I seriously, seriously doubt they'd be as bad as Saddam, or be anywhere near capable of inflicting the tortures he did.

That said, it's still an atrocity for sure.

[Liberator]

Originally posted by Ford Prefect

That is what an army is.

Well aren't we a little elitist piece of garbage.

Bear in mind that it is because of them that you can go out and **** your girlfriend or get blitzed or whatever the hell you do for fun up there in the marginally decent state of Massachusetts, because they are over there fighting and dying so that the terrorist don't come over and get all freaky.  They deserve a little respect from you and they'll get it or I'll know the reason why.  

BTW, massachewsits was at the top of the short list of states that lost population last year.

[WeatherOp]

Saddam droped Bio weapons in his own citys to see what would happen, While this thing is bad what they did, it still don't compare none to Saddam.

[Ford Prefect]

Bear in mind that it is because of them that you can go out and **** your girlfriend or get blitzed or whatever the hell you do for fun up there in the marginally decent state of Massachusetts, because they are over there fighting and dying so that the terrorist don't come over and get all freaky. They deserve a little respect from you and they'll get it or I'll know the reason why.

Come now, you don't think that's just a tad bit recycled?

You needn't think my judgement begins and ends with the military. It's people I'm assessing, and the military, the last time I checked, is made up of people. When you put them under stress, they're going to start popping, and doing things that paint an ugly picture of primal human behavior. We can debate about which wars were legitimate and which weren't, but if you think for a moment that the United States military has any more righteousness than any other group of people, it is my humble opinion that you are under an illusion.

You are invited to insult Massachusetts to every extent of your heart's desire. If you haven't noticed, pride is not something upon which I place great value. Here, I'll help you: **** Massachusetts, it's ****ing cold up here.

[Rictor]

Originally posted by WeatherOp
Saddam droped Bio weapons in his own citys to see what would happen, While this thing is bad what they did, it still don't compare none to Saddam.

Actually, there is evidence that suggests it was the Iranians that gassed Halabja. And in either case, the Kurds were not, are not, and the way things are going never will be "Saddam's people". They were his enemies, and remained so until the day he was overthrown.

Which doesn't make it any better, but I'm getting so sick of people spouting prefabricated lines in order to justify their positions.

Lib: when an army invades and occupies a country, they loot, pillage and generally cause havok. This is the way its been for thousands of years, and don't think that the American army is somehow an exception. You said yourself that your opinion of the Army is based on faith. At some point, you will have to ackowledge that you can't defend an opinion forever when the available evidence contradicts it.

Even if I love Hitler and support the Nazis, I have to acknowledge that the Holocaust happened. Its not a matter of idealogy, its a matter of fact.

[Liberator]

I'm not denying that Abu-Grahib happened.  I denying that the United States Army is composed of creeps and sadists who get their rocks off on humiliating people.

[WMCoolmon]

It's called being human. I imagine, when you're stuck in a foreign country, knowing or watching people you know die, that you're going to get scared. And you'll probably have to get that fear out of you. So, when you've got a bunch of people who are the 'enemy' in a prison, what's wrong with taking it out on them? They're the enemy, after all, and it makes you feel better. Like a drug.

The purpose of the army is to kill other people's armies. We don't have fancy-pants force fields; if someone attacks anyone, it's kill-or-be-killed.

But murder is one of the worst crimes that society thinks a person can commit. Someone who respects other people and is open-minded makes a great member of society, but a poor soldier. Someone who cares far more about themself than they do other people at large makes a great soldier, but a poor member of society. Finding a balance between those two is hard.

[Janos]

Originally posted by Liberator


Well aren't we a little elitist piece of garbage.

Bear in mind that it is because of them that you can go out and **** your girlfriend or get blitzed or whatever the hell you do for fun up there in the marginally decent state of Massachusetts, because they are over there fighting and dying so that the terrorist don't come over and get all freaky.  They deserve a little respect from you and they'll get it or I'll know the reason why.  

BTW, massachewsits was at the top of the short list of states that lost population last year.

Wov, personal attacks and appeals to emotion, fearmongering and stuff. That sure convinced me.

[Fineus]

I really can't be bothered to wait for this to go down the pan... and it really will. Shame you guys can't be more mature about your online discussions - but so be it.

Locked.