[Unknown Target]

Originally posted by Rictor
Gank: I said excluding border skirmishes. I meant that it is unlikely to come to total war between the two nations, the type of war which would result in either side resorting to nuclear weapons. The kind of war thats being fought can go on for a long time without either side making substantial territorial gains (if any).

Small things can start large wars. Witness WW1. Any little mistake that  results in substantial loss in equipment or lives, could result in a giant war.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Gank


Ask the guys manning the patriots during the gulf war. Its success rate in testing was 96% iirc, while in combat it was 70-40%

Even less, was it not?

....I'll check
EDITed;
http://www.its.caltech.edu/~ee162/notes/postol.pdf

Evidence suggesting less than 10% accuracy against Scuds during the 91 Gulf War.

There's also other stuff suggesting it has serious problems in identifying friend from foe, arising from the downing of an RAF tornado in the last Gulf War;  http://cbs11tv.com/localnews/local_story_182193557.html  / http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/07/06/patriot_plot_thickens/
/
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/05/20/patriot_missile/

[Splinter]

It had really piss poor performance here in Israel... it didn’t intercept even 1 of the 40 or so scuds launched at us.

At any rate the testing methods I would hope have been refined over the years and I would hope that things have been corrected and remedied especially since its main development drive was because of the incredible failings of the patriot system in 1991

[Corsair]

The Patriot, IIRC, was never designed to intercept ballistic missiles. I'm pretty sure it was a SAM system that was meant to defend against airplanes and airplane-launched missiles. During the Gulf War, the US military tried to adapt it to function as an anti-Scud platform, but we all know how well that worked out.

[Ghostavo]

Originally posted by Splinter
Why do you ask anyway?

Just wondering how you need nukes if you have a 3 million manpowered army which has technological advantage over anyone except the US and maybe some european powers (UK, Germany, etc...) and still say you fear invasion.

Why such a large military if you have nuclear deterrents?

[vyper]

Maybe? I'd put the SAS up against them any day.

*gets out cock and starts waving length*

[Gank]

It was designed to engage all three.

Splinter: Aye well thats the whole point I'm trying to make, you can test it till the cows come home, but theres no actual guarantee it'll perform as well as it does in tests. You could come up against something unexpected, like the Iraqi scuds unintentional mirv effect.

Aldo: I knew that, i just quoted the official figures to avoid disputes. And to be fair some of the scuds fell apart when they were incoming making it harder for the patriot to hit them.

[Splinter]

Originally posted by Ghostavo


Just wondering how you need nukes if you have a 3 million manpowered army which has technological advantage over anyone except the US and maybe some european powers (UK, Germany, etc...) and still say you fear invasion.

Why such a large military if you have nuclear deterrents?

Yes 3 million if you put the entire country on hold... standing we have a nice 600k or so the rest are reservists going about their lives... practically any Israeli you ever meet if he’s over 21 he has military training he knows some hand to hand combat depending what he was in and he knows how to handle a weapon.

Within 24 you could probably have most of the 3 million mobilized and ready to go since the reservists go in once a year anyway they never really get "rusty".

However when you are facing countries with combined armies of over 18mil a 3 million man army doesn’t seem so big anymore... and that’s just with Syria Egypt and Jordan not to mention next time which might involve Iraq (well maybe not now that the US "took care" of them) and Iran...

Originally posted by vyper
Maybe? I'd put the SAS up against them any day.

*gets out cock and starts waving length*

As I learned and observed in my many visits to SF forums and discussion boards there is no way to compare one SF against another.

The SAS are trained for their areas and the "likely" areas they will be required to go to as with ours...

When the SAS and Seals and Delta were going into Iraq they all came here to get desert combat training with our S13 and Matkal forces. I know this because my friends’ brother was one of the S'13 officers training them. If Israel was to go on a campaign in a foreign climate in Europe I'm sure they would go to the SAS or something for training in those areas.

However because of the SAS track record I would not consider you foolish at all to admire them in the least. If I weren’t so dang patriotic they would probably be my favorites to.

oh yeah a nifty unofficial sight on all the diffrent special forces units of Israel... I warn you though... theres of them

38 to be exact

http://www.isayeret.com its not complete or 100% up to date but give you a nice picture.

[redmenace]

Originally posted by redmenace
It could have been from the nuclear scare, or I should say continue nuclear scare just in case Iran decides to build a nuclear weapon.

Rictor, I was only giving a possible explanation, not a political opinion, nothing more.

[Janos]

Originally posted by IceFire
I think the missiles you speak of are nothing more than glorified rocket artillery.  The advantage is that the actual weapon is so small that tracking it with a weapon like the Arrow or Patriot is probably insanity of the first degree.

You can shoot down big missiles but the homemade ones probably not.

Nobody has come up with a solid defense system against small arms fire, rockets, RPGs, and motar launchers.  There just isn't the sensitivity of sensors, quickness of computer calculation, and the speed of firing that would be required.

Oh icy.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/2407807.stm

I can't find the link about UK's electromagentic shielding program, which essentially shields the APCs and tanks from RPG hits.

[Tiara]

OW! A dick-waving contest!



Surprisingly small, they are.

[Rictor]

You're just jealous you can't participate



Looks like the Pentagon is denying it. And when they out of their way, and to such length, to deny allegations made by journalists, which they rarely do at all, that tells me something may be up.

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/671eed44-6864-11d9-9183-00000e2511c8.html

[Tiara]

Originally posted by Rictor
You're just jealous you can't participate

 

I can hardly see it, let alone be jealous of it.

[redmenace]

Looks like we have reached a new low.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Rictor
You're just jealous you can't participate



Looks like the Pentagon is denying it. And when they out of their way, and to such length, to deny allegations made by journalists, which they rarely do at all, that tells me something may be up.

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/671eed44-6864-11d9-9183-00000e2511c8.html

Although, if they refused to comment you'd say something was up as well.

[Rictor]

I always think something is up. Thats why I'll be sitting pretty when the invasion comes, while your're toiling in the underground mines of our alien overlords.

Though seriously, when an establishment for whom "no comment" is a way of life stands up and denounces the story so explicitly, its hard not to take notice.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Rictor
I always think something is up. Thats why I'll be sitting pretty when the invasion comes, while your're toiling in the underground mines of our alien overlords.

Though seriously, when an establishment for whom "no comment" is a way of life stands up and denounces the story so explicitly, its hard not to take notice.

It doesn't really matter what they say, it's whether you'd trust them to be honest.  And, in all honesty, I wouldn't.

Anyways, when the invasion comes you'll be first against the wall, sonny-jim.

[Janos]

Originally posted by Tiara
OW! A dick-waving contest!



Surprisingly small, they are.

THANK YOU FOR CONTRIBUTING

Btw, here's the Hersh article in it's entirety if someone hasn't read it already.
http://www.newyorker.com/printable/?fact/050124fa_fact

[vyper]

Originally posted by Tiara

I can hardly see it, let alone be jealous of it.

That's cause it's already behind you.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by vyper

That's cause it's already behind you.

You mean in the ChopMachine™ Mk.II?