[ShadowWolf_IH]

of course i would fight.  and of course i am not taking away the right that they have to do the same.  They don't see us getting rid of Sadam, they see us as killing thier loved ones.  How can i say that they don't have the right to fight?  bottom line is, if you came into my backyard and started killing my family i would take you out.  

my point is, that they want us to go home, i think our job is done, and i want us to go home as well.  I don't think that there was another way to overthrow him, i simply don't see any other way working to get him out.  But it's done, it's time to go home and NOT be what the world thinks we are.

[Black Wolf]

Originally posted by ShadowWolf_IH
I think that we should have stopped him in 91, we should have rolled into bagdad and taken him out.  

There is a very good reason why they didn't do just that, and it's happening right now.

[Deepblue]

Originally posted by Swamp_Thing
And subjected you to the same torture that you were supposed to be getting rid of? What would you do if your child got his arms and legs amputated and burnt to a crisp?

Whoa, slow down there. Where did you get this BS?

And yes death is bad. But this is a war, and death is part of war. However, there are more people murdered every day than those that die in this war. Death is all around, people can be savages, welcome to reality.

[Genryu]

Originally posted by ShadowWolf_IH

I believed in getting sadam out fo power, but i believe it's time to bring our boys home.  Or start pulling out right after the election.

how's that?

That's good, but the thing that, IMO, pissed many people, was the fact that Bush lied, and you can't telll us it's not the truth, about the reason for this war. Because, sorry, but WMD, link to Al-Quaida = nada.
And the "Saddam is a tyran" thing ? US has supported to many tyrans in the past and the present to be a believable reason anymore. I don't flame America or American, I just want to express why I tend do dislike the country nowadays(though I wouldn't be against visiting it someday).

[Flipside]

Originally posted by ShadowWolf_IH
the fact is, this is the kind of bull**** that is running our new people off.  if you take offense at that, maybe it's because somewhere you know that you are one of the people who are doing it.  the older members here are supposed to be helping HLP grow, and the constant *****ing about this isn't helping.  not when new people leave because of it.

everyday there is a new "let's ***** about america" thread.  How many do we need?  it's the theme of Hard light.  a place for everything.  it has become a place to *****.

I'm actually more likely to take offence at your generalisations about me as a person, and you complain about us making generalisations about a country?

I've kept a pretty even view throughout the whole thing, I've always stated that, regardless of what the motives in the higher echelons, the Soldiers are not bloody-thirsty murderous vampires, they are men and women like the people on here.

However, when you turn round and basically imply that, simply because I don't agree with your idea of the problem, then I am therefore probably adding to it rings far too many bells for my taste.

[ShadowWolf_IH]

actually, flipside, you were the one i was thikning that it LEAST applied to.

[Flipside]

Well, I'll let you off this time then

[ShadowWolf_IH]

k

[Gank]

A Ch-53 is a fairly big machine, need something pretty hefty to take it down. That said its big and slow, a ZU-23 would probably make ****e of it fairly quickly. Western Iraq doesnt really have much of a US presence iirc, shouldnt be too hard to hide a AA gun or Sam system out there, theyre managing to drop Grads in on most of the major US bases after all.

[Flipside]

Well, we're talking Chinooks here, not high-grade military chopper. Should be tougher in bad weather, but they see a lot higher workload than combat choppers.

[Gank]

Super Stallion actually, bit bigger than a Chinook. Lot better at handling bad weather too, plus it has three engines. And you'd expect out of 31 people on board there'd be at least a few survivors even if they were badly hurt, as Swamp thing pointed out:

The only thing that would cause the chopper to drop out of the sky like that is a bad pilot, enemy fire, or a total failure in the rotor blades (like loosing a blade).

Sand blowing out the engines isnt going to cause it to drop like a stone, even if all 3 engines blew at once.

[vyper]

Originally posted by ShadowWolf_IH


and vyper out of everything that you said, i agree with one thing that you didn't say but inferred....there should be no nation with veto powers in the UN.

At least we can agree on that.

[Ford Prefect]

who's blaming the world....i'm just tired of hearing the anti american bull****. the anti christian bull****, the racial slurs, all of it. Everyday there is something new that allows people to ***** about the same **** that they have been *****ing about for a long time. every single day, someone has to post a new *****ing thread.

There are things I'm tired of hearing, too. I'm tired of hearing that the new Star Wars movies sucked. It offends me as a... well, it just does. I'm tired of hearing that "Wicked" was a good show, because it was definitely cookie-cutter recycled pop ****. I'm tired of hearing that it's immoral for me to have Mr. Peanut tied up in my basement where I sadistically interrogate him every night. It's my right.

But you know what? It's the general discussion forum and I accept that I'm not going to like what people say, and that I have the same right as everyone else to express my point in opposition, or to ignore it.

By the way, who the hell is using racial slurs?

[ShadowWolf_IH]

you didn't notice the thread that got closed just two or three days ago?

[Ford Prefect]

Ehhh... come again?

[vyper]

Originally posted by ShadowWolf_IH
you didn't notice the thread that got closed just two or three days ago?

No. Link?

[Swamp_Thing]

Aparentlly, today was the most deadly day for US troops in over 15 years. And the image that comes to mind is Bush in an aircraft carrier saying "Our work is done!"...


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6847225/

Btw, you will find a picture of the chopper in question in the link.
Big sucker, very reliable, strongly built, triple turbine with 5 blade rotor. These babies don´t just fall out of the sky.
Maybe it was filled with lots  of fat marines, and they went over the weight limit. There are fats in the army too...


@Deepblue
 

Whoa, slow down there. Where did you get this BS?

Whoa!! Slow down there yourself! You haven´t heard? What do you think the Abu Ghraib scandal, the british trials, and Guantanamo were all about? Football? Or maybe you have a definition of torture diferent from that of 99% of the planet...

[Scuddie]

I hate America, only because I have to be part of it.  If I lived somewhere else, I wouldnt care.  It wouldnt be my ass at the end of the shotgun.

With that said,  America!  **** YEAH!!  We're gonna save the mother****in day, yeah!

EDIT: Wow, that was weird...  Somehow 20something replies showed up in the past 2 minutes as I was responding to an earlier post.

[Thrilla]

I think people are taking offense because you said:

"i couldn´t care less wether 100 or 1000 die over there. They have it coming. And i don´t care about their families either. The fact that Bush stands in office today is a proof that most families agree with what´s going on over there. That makes them just as guilty in my book."


You want to talk about generalizations.  If you didn't noticed He didn't win a landslide and about half this country doesn't like him and didn't vote for him like myself.

I don't get mad at people when they express their opinions, however, that comment does kind of upset me.  However, it's not my fault that some people on this forum never learned respect for others.  For all you know some of those people on the helicopter might have fomer HLPers or a close family member or friend of somebody here.  How do think that would upset them if they were to read that.  Or think hypothetically.  What if it were one of your family members that died in something like that and then I said something like.  "I'm glad they're dead.  Maybe they'll learn their lesson or something."  And don't give me that BS that it wouldn't spark some sort of reaction out of you.  I know it would.  And you'd probably be typing this same **** that I'm typing right now to me.  I'm just asking people to please keep respect for the dead.  Just a wee little bit?

[vyper]

I think people took offence because the US is suffering from a "victim" complex.