[Col. Fishguts]

This was mentioned before, but only regarding the faceting problems of submodels. http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,20741.0.html

My problem is more basic: I models something in 3dsMax, export to .3ds, import to TrueSpace, set up autofaceting so everything looks the way I want, convert to .pof using the facet PCS build. Result: The supposedly smoth polys are all weird shaded.
Simple model for demonstrating purpose (autofaceting angle at 55):

In modelview:



As you see, the faceting errors are already visible on the chamfer box.

Ingame:



Now all the ugly shading is visible, but notice how the completely flat mesh is smooth. The faceting effect only occurs when the adjacent polys are bent, thus the shading should be smoothed.

But the crazy part is, that when I create the model in TS, everything works perfectly, no shading woes whatsoever. So the problem lies somwhere in converting from Max to .3ds (or .DXF which I also tried).

So:

- What the hell is actually going on ?

- Is there a converting method from Max to .cob that doesn't cause the errors ?

- Could I somehow force TS to redraw the model, thus fixing the bugs ?

[Taristin]

Why not just do Max to Pof? I've got it working pretty successfully.  Just make sure the mesh is an edittable poly, and that none of the names are capitalized.

I believe your problem is that when you export to a 3ds, each smoothing group is seperated into seperate objects. SO TS doesn't group them correctly, and the shading becomes ccorrupted.

[Omniscaper]

Aha!!! That problem! Ok.. heres the deal. Truecrap....I mean Truespace does NOT support smoothgroups. It determins smoothing by material. So if you have a cube with a single material, the smoothing will be depndent on the materials smoothing angle. Now imagine a more complex structure using a SINGLE material. You will lose control over what gets smoothed because of its reliance on a single smoothing angle.

If you're using max use Styxx's pluggin. It translates 3dsmax's smoothgroups accurately. Also keep in mind the specular shading is not as precise as the normal shading. It has something to do with speuclars using vertex shaders or somthing.

[Col. Fishguts]

I know that TurdSpace doesn't support smoothgroups like 3dsMax, and believe me I played enough with the autofaceting angles in TS to know it's a bane. But I could live with it.....but it won't even apply proper autofaceting to anything imported from .3ds, it looks fine in TS but fux0red once converted to pof.

What version of 3dsMax would I need for Styxx's plugin to work ? Since I'm currently using R3w which doesn't work with the plugin, so I'd have to "find" a newer version.

[StratComm]

Another problem is that PCS is plagued - literally - by a subobject smoothing misinterpretation.  I know precisely what it is doing, though have little idea of what would need to be done to fix it.  The max converter continues to not work for some of us, and that's a big hurtle for most of us to try bridging.

[Omniscaper]

Styxx's made pluggins for 4,5,6. Here is a screenshot of Styxx's pluggin results. You'll also see the limitations of specular smoothing, same problem with PCS. The Specular shading implemented by SCP is vertex based. Perhaps if they implemented PIXEL shadeers (hint hint) these shading issues would disappear.

No specular (black map)


Maximum specular (whitemap)


My balanced specualr (dark grey)


Also remember when you make primitives in 3dsmax and convert them to an editable mesh, they create overlapped/duplicate vertices that need to be welded togeter. If you try to select a vertice note that you will see 2 selected. Set Weld threshold to .001 and hit the weld button.

[Col. Fishguts]

I don't thnk it's the fault of PCS, since everything created in TS works perfectly. For example you can create a simple sphere in Max and TS convert both and the results will be very different.
And I recompiled several models for TBP which were created in TS or Lightwave, and they have absolutely no such faceting problems, so it's got to be some sort of 3ds converting bug.

[Omniscaper]

Faceting anomolies only occur in the specular, at least it is more prominent. TS, LW, PCS do not support smoothgroups. The only way to take manual control over shading in general is to create a new material (though the same texture file) for each specific smoothing angle you want. 3dsmax seperates material ID's and smoothing Id's. 3dsmax allows for an object with a single texture to have a single material with multiple smooth groups. TS and LW requires you to have multiple materials of the same texture to get the different smoothgroups. Get it?

[StratComm]

I did an experiment with spheres created in truespace and got wrong shadings out of them.  Truespace may number its vertices differently than the 3ds format tends to, making smoothing errors less obvious.  But PCS reliably applies the same normals in the exact same order to all polygroups, leading to the "screwed up shading" problem that's been discussed so many times.  And to fix specular, don't make such large polygons.

[Col. Fishguts]

Get it ?

Yep....but I already know that I loose all smoothgroup data when converting to .3ds, and I would be more than happy if I could at least use the per-material autofaceting from TS. And at first it sees to work, I can set it up autofaceting perfect in TS but after converting in't screwed.
But when I build the same model in TS from scratch and set up autofaceting exactly the same, it works fine ingame (yes, even on full shiny parts).
For example the new autofaceted Omega has no shading problems whatsoever Clicky

[Omniscaper]

I have no doubt that pcs's auto faceting build works many times without error. I'm just addressing the times when they do NOT. Taking full control over an object's shading maybe necesarry instead of leaving it to auto-whatever.

Before Styxx's pluggin was released I used the smooth per material technique and got the reults I wanted. The question is, does Freespace take it into account and instead of just having extra smoothangle information, does Freespace treat the materials as independent and unique materials despite it having the same texture reference. Fillrate performace takes a hit if the same texture is used throughout a number of materials.

[Omniscaper]

Here's an example where autofaceting fails me. A not so geometric object.


I tried so many different angles to seperate flat and rounded
parts.

IHere's an example of using material per shading group method in TS. This is probably the most inefficient use of materials. 18 materials increased to 48 in order to seperate smoothgroups.

[Roanoke]

Originally posted by Omniscaper
Also remember when you make primitives in 3dsmax and convert them to an editable mesh, they create overlapped/duplicate vertices that need to be welded togeter. If you try to select a vertice note that you will see 2 selected. Set Weld threshold to .001 and hit the weld button.

I use editable poly and get the same problem. Total pain in the ass with my trying to learn un-wrapping.

[Taristin]

Eh? I always have solid meshes, unless I export them to 3ds format and then reimport them later on...

[Nico]

Originally posted by Omniscaper
Here's an example where autofaceting fails me. A not so geometric object.I tried so many different angles to seperate flat and rounded parts.

Autosmoothing is for lazy asses

BTW, when I convert a mesh using Styxx converter, the smoothing ingame is perfect, but not with PCS, so...

edit: and wtf, btw? When I create a mesh, any mesh, in max, and I convert it to whatever I want ( edit poly, edit mesh, patch, whatever ), it never breaks the verts, they're all welded nice. You sure you're not doing something strange when you create your meshes?

[StratComm]

I was going to ask the same thing.  Max creates perfectly clean objects unless you do something outlandish to the original mesh itself.

[Roanoke]

Has only been doing it recently, I noticed.