[Genryu]

Taken from a french newsite :

Le Premier ministre israélien, Ariel Sharon, a de son côté tenu à marquer que «cette visite se passe à l'ombre de la commémoration des 60 ans de la libération du camp d'Auschwitz. Le gouffre de sang entre les deux peuples sera ouvert pour toujours sous nos pieds (...) La douleur est toujours vivace. Le peuple juif ne se remettra jamais de ce que le peuple allemand a fait au peuple juif.»

Sharon talks how about a 'chasm of blood' still exists between the two population, and of how the Jews will never be able to forget what Germany did to it. If I were really cynical, I'd say that without the action of Germany, they still wouldn't have a country to call their own. But i'd like to simply point out that while people are not able to criticize Isreal without being called anti-semit, Israel has the right to defame other country, especially when said country has tried again and again to make amends. Well, more precisely, certain politician acts like this, (Sharon, anyone ? ), since I doubt the major part of the population is that moronic.

[Flipside]

Sometimes it annoys me, Sharon hoards grudges like Gobstoppers. I don't think the man would be happy if he didn't have some kind of persecution complex going on.

[vyper]

Actually you'll find it was the (Israeli) terrorist bastards that tried to kill British subjects that assured Israel a country, not German actions to wipe them out in Europe.

Meh. He's just appealing to the popular right in Israel.

[Windrunner]

Whats Gobstoppers

[vyper]

A Gobstopper - a very big sweetie that generally shuts children up.

[Windrunner]

Originally posted by vyper
A Gobstopper - a very big sweetie that generally shuts children up.

Oh i see. Well you learn something new everyday

[Gank]

Break your teeth so they would.

[Rictor]

Well, he may be using it cynically, but uhm, we are talking about the Holocaust here. Yes, Germany has tried to make amends, and yes, pretty much anyone who was old enough to participate in the Nazi slaughter is dead by now, but still. Its not unreasonable for many Jews to hold a grudge that will never go away, after what happened they're entitled to act any way they damn well please.

[Gank]

No, they're not.

[Flipside]

But it's holding grudges and making generalisations like this that led to the blossoming of the Nazi Party.

As has been said before, why is it that, any people freed from Persecution, immediately make it their priority to find someone else to persecute?

The people involved are Dead or Dying, give them all some peace.

[Martinus]

Originally posted by Gank
No, they're not.

[color=66ff00]Damn straight, half the problems in the world today are the result of old grudges.

Of course most of those grudges are perpetuated by that bastion of morality 'organised religion'.
[/color]

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Rictor
Well, he may be using it cynically, but uhm, we are talking about the Holocaust here. Yes, Germany has tried to make amends, and yes, pretty much anyone who was old enough to participate in the Nazi slaughter is dead by now, but still. Its not unreasonable for many Jews to hold a grudge that will never go away, after what happened they're entitled to act any way they damn well please.

You can't hold the children responsible for the sins of their fathers.

[01010]

I'm glad I'm not the only one that was a bit miffed at this.

[Rictor]

I'm not holding the children responsible. In fact, other than the actual people who perpatrated the crimes, I'm not holding anyone responsible. However, the survivors of the Holocaust and all those who were persecuted have every right to feel pissed for the wrong thats have been done to them. Can't say I blame 'em.

[Taristin]

How many people in Israel are holocaust victims, though? These are the children of the victims who are holding the grudges against children of the perpetrators.

What's the saying? "An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind"?

[Gank]

hrmph, so under this logic the bosnians have ever right to blame the serbs for what was done to them?

[Flipside]

Not to mention those Bastard Romans!

[Taristin]

The Hell with the Romans. The Greeks! They screwed up all over Europe! Bastards!

[Flipside]

I draw the line at Vikings mind, they're big, and carry weapons....

[Rictor]

Originally posted by Gank
hrmph, so under this logic the bosnians have ever right to blame the serbs for what was done to them?

Sure do. Thing is, it was pretty much a big threeway between the Bosnians, Serbs (and Bosnian Serbs) and Croatians. All three sides had armed forces, fighting each other as well as, regretablly, civlians. Which wasn't the case during the Holocaust. I don't hold any grudges against Bosnians or Croatians, mostly cause I think the war was bull**** in the first place, but if someone wants to hold a grudge against me or Serbia or whoever, that's their thing and they're welcome to it.

You can make the arguement that its not helpful, and I would agree. You can make the arguement that Sharon is abusing what happened for political reason, and I would agree. But nevertheless, there is some level of collective anger to which victims are entitled, irrational though it may be.