Author Topic: A Question about religion - no flames please.  (Read 6394 times)

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Offline KappaWing

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A Question about religion - no flames please.
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Well, this is debatable, I think. I equate religion with art, ("art" meaning all forms-- literature, music, visual, etc.), and the most insightful art certainly stems from those with exceptional intellectual prowess. The problem with religion is that it is often built by people with great artistic insight, but it is then interpreted by the average person, who is not capable of understanding the overwhelming complexities of which the intellectual is aware.


You're probably right. For example, I don't think Muammed and his followers anticipated their religion being so incredibly misinterpreted to the point of people literally blowing themselves up to attain eternal salvation.
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Offline vyper

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A Question about religion - no flames please.
vyper thought KappaWing was called KappaWang
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Offline Kie99

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A Question about religion - no flames please.
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Offline KappaWing

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vyper thought KappaWing was called KappaWang


lol!
:lol:
« Last Edit: February 17, 2005, 10:44:10 am by 2470 »
"Your efforts to interdict me have failed, papacy. Pentagon, engage propaganda drive."
"Now, Protestant scum, you will see the power of this fully armed and operational Papal Station!"

 

Offline Unknown Target

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Originally posted by Nico
Sooooo, I have one question, too:
Before JC, christianism didn't exist, so to speak. And it took hundreds, thousands of years to spread worldwide.
So, what about those before JC, what about those, dunno, native americans who were not "blessed" by some sign before the colons poped up and evangelized by gallons?
What about 2 year old kids that die for X reason and can't even grasp the concept of god?
All damned, just coz they didn't ( couldn't ) know?
I believe hell ( to reply to someone who asked before, hell exists in all religions, before christianism, be shintoist, norse, pagan, egyptian, whatever ) must be an awfully crowded place if the christians are right :p

As for me, I think we turn into some etheral creature that wanders  around the world and jumps into the next baby just born that it meets. Yeah, that's why they cry, coz an etheral creature forces its way inside the soulless body!
Nah, really :D



I remember, awhile ago, some thread being posted here about a girl who was allergic to something in the water they use to baptize babies or whatever, so she couldn't be baptized, and the priests of her church said she was damned to hell because of it.

 

Offline vyper

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A Question about religion - no flames please.
Indeed I recall that. Now that was a fun topic. :wtF:
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Offline Ghostavo

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A Question about religion - no flames please.
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Originally posted by Sapphire


I will try...

Christ was not only fully God, but also fully human.  He felt and experienced everything any human would.  And yes, he did truly "die" both in the physical and spiritual sense.  He suffered the pain as any human...and died physically as any human would have under those circumstances....and was separated from God....as any sinner would be.  We see art depicting Christ on the cross....a small dribble of blood on his brow and a small cut on his side.  We've made his death a nice little clean thing that our consciences can live with.  What we've failed to think about is that he died a horrible death...with much suffering.  I never stopped to think about it until I heard a medical doctor describe what would be happening to the human body during scourging and crucifixtion.  

And yes, he rose again.... and we say "ya, but he was God"  Well, the whole point of it is:  This is no longer something attainable just by God.  He paid the price...and led by example...and now any human being can expect that same promise of living beyond physical death.

Btw...Let me say how nice it was to read posts on this sort of topic without someone resorting to name calling, slurs, and blatent disrespect to each other.  :yes:


That (the bold) is what I don't get. How can he seperate from himself?

It looks much more like torture than sacrifice or death...
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Offline Unknown Target

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A Question about religion - no flames please.
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Originally posted by Clave
This looks good to me: http://www.witchway.net/


And on a secondary note, this is actually a better resource, imho:

www.wicca.com

 
A Question about religion - no flames please.
I don't understand what part of water someone could be alergic to?  

Whatever, I believe those priests are thinking a little too legalistic in terms of God's plan for salvation.  In special circumstances like that, who are they to claim they know how God will judge?  I believe that God will see her willingness to be baptised, and not hold it against her that she could not be because of a medical problem.

The Bible tells Christians to believe and be baptised, the baptism being the outward sign that they had accepted Christ as Savior and public testimony thereof--an act of obedience.  However, I personally believe that if someone gets saved in church....and walks out the door to cross the street to be baptised in a lake, but gets hit by a car and dies before they get baptised, I can't see how that would be held against him.  God looks at the heart, and the willingness to obey his word.  

Personally, I don't even believe in infant baptism.  Believers were being baptised only after they had made a conscious decision to follow Christ.  Somewhere along the line, someone interpreted this as babies having to go to hell because they could not make a decision for themselves.  So some well-doer instituted infant baptism to save the dying babies from damnation.  As a result, many denominations seem to place a emphasis on baptism as being the thing that "saves" you.

 

Offline Flipside

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A Question about religion - no flames please.
Actually, it was the wheat in the communal wafers, but this isn't a thread called 'Let's get Christians!', I don't want this to turn into another gang bang. ;)

 

Offline Unknown Target

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A Question about religion - no flames please.
Most all of Christians are "well-doers" :doubt:

Anyway, priests are able to do that because, apparantly, they are spoken to "by God" and as such carry his will to the people.
That's why the rape cases weren't reported, or one of the reasons: a priest did it, and a priest is supposadly talked to by God, and as such is doing his will.

 
A Question about religion - no flames please.
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Originally posted by Ghostavo
That (the bold) is what I don't get. How can he seperate from himself?

It looks much more like torture than sacrifice or death...


Ahhh....the infinite confusion about the concept of the Trinity.  Remember...  "God" is made up of 3 parts: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.  Sorta like an egg is made up of: white, yolk, and shell.

Each part is definite and can be separated from the others, yet together they make up the whole.

Its a slippery slope and like a fool I will probably run headlong down it in attempt to explain, and crash and burn when I fail.  Good thing that God is compassionate on fools too.

I believe that the separation here was the separation of Son  from the Father and Holy Spirit.   At that moment...Godhood was far from him, simply because God cannot co-exist with sin--and the Bible tells us that he became sin on the cross...our sins, so that we didn't have to suffer the ultimate wages of those sins.

Does that help a little bit?
« Last Edit: February 17, 2005, 01:27:15 pm by 2033 »

 
A Question about religion - no flames please.
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Originally posted by Flipside
Actually, it was the wheat in the communal wafers, but this isn't a thread called 'Let's get Christians!', I don't want this to turn into another gang bang. ;)


Someone told you that communion (or the wheat in wafers) saves you?

 

Offline vyper

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A Question about religion - no flames please.
Wicca = cool. Unfortunately, I've never truly understood or accepted half of it could be real.
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A Question about religion - no flames please.
Quote
Originally posted by Unknown Target
Most all of Christians are "well-doers" :doubt:

Anyway, priests are able to do that because, apparantly, they are spoken to "by God" and as such carry his will to the people.
That's why the rape cases weren't reported, or one of the reasons: a priest did it, and a priest is supposadly talked to by God, and as such is doing his will.


Oh boy.  I'm not touching this one...  I'd have all the catholics on my case.  :lol:

Lets just say that the Bible tells us that when Christ died...the curtain to the Holy of Holies--which only the priests could enter into--was torn.  It was a signal that we are all free to go to God on our own behalf.

 

Offline Unknown Target

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A Question about religion - no flames please.
Find the article and read it for yourself :) It was too long ago for me to remember the specifics.

Anywho, I'd just like to add that all the non-Christians should respect Christianity just like any normal religion. People have the right to believe what they choose.

 

Offline Unknown Target

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Originally posted by vyper
Wicca = cool. Unfortunately, I've never truly understood or accepted half of it could be real.



What don't you understand?

And for the record, Wicca is very diverse: you are basically free to choose what you do and do not believe. In some cases, some Christian converts even turn it to be a lot like Christianity.


Here's a basic run down of that statement:

In Wicca, there is The One. It is the energy of all living and non-living things, that flows through the universe. Everybody is connected to it, even people who do not believe in it. However, for those who do believe in it, you can use it to magick and that sort of stuff. NOTE: Magick is not like "Charmed," but if I had to describe it in the simplest terms, it's sort of like changing the probability of something happening in your favor. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

Anyway, back to The One (I'm fuzzy on the exact name). The One is not a physical or conscious entity. It is the binding energy that keeps us all together, etc. Lower down on the list are the two Gods, the God and the Goddess. The former symbolizes life, and is usually a creature with a man's upper body and a goat's lower body. Similar to the Christian satan? Sort of, yes. Why? Because of the Crusades, but that's another topic. The Goddess is a human.

The creationist myth is that the two of them created the universe from their union (aka sex). This created the stars, planets, people, etc. Thus, sex is actually considered a very good thing in Wicca, as it gives us the same power as the God and Goddess.


Now, the thing about Wicca is that you can use several different idealogies. I personally believe in just the God and Goddess (for now), however, many others use a pantheon of Gods, taken from around the world. These can include the Greek, Egyptian, Asian, etc.


I think that's most every basic thing. :) I probably forgot something, but oh well.

 
A Question about religion - no flames please.
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Originally posted by Unknown Target
Find the article and read it for yourself :) It was too long ago for me to remember the specifics.

Anywho, I'd just like to add that all the non-Christians should respect Christianity just like any normal religion. People have the right to believe what they choose.


Exactly. Thats why we weren't made to be robots.  We were given free will to choose to believe or not to believe.

 

Offline Flipside

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A Question about religion - no flames please.
Actually, I seem to recall that George Lucas used Wicca references a lot when creating 'The Force'. He found the fact that both 'Light' and 'Dark' practioners existed quite fascinating.

 

Offline Unknown Target

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:) I only have problems with people who try to force their beliefs on others. No offense, but a lot of Christians try to do that (because they believe that they are "saving" others, and because the Bible says so). I don't mean to start an argument, though, I'm just using an example. I've met many Christians who just don't care what religion you are :)