[Sapphire]

I agree in principle with you, UT

I'm afraid that many christians seem to be forcing their religion on you, when they are simply trying to share what they experience and believe to be true in hopes that someone else will experience what God has to give freely.

I can't remember who said it or the exact wording, but there was one man that said in essence "Preach the Gospel, and sometimes use words".  

Another words.... live like Christ, and people will notice.  You don't have to hit them over the head with it.

[vyper]

[q]"Charmed,"[/q]

I'd prefer a Buffy analogy, Willow was hot once she became a lesbian witch.....

Erm. Let's move on now.

Makes a bit more sense put like that, bar my natural avoidance of "Gods" per se.

[Unknown Target]

Originally posted by Flipside
Actually, I seem to recall that George Lucas used Wicca references a lot when creating 'The Force'. He found the fact that both 'Light' and 'Dark' practioners existed quite fascinating.

Yes, parts of Wicca is startlingly like "The Force" actually

However, there is no "light" or "dark" magick. There is magick, and what you choose to do with it is what makes it light or dark. It's up to the person to decide how they use the tool

And Sapphire, if people lived like Christ, then I would be thrilled. Ghandi once said "I do not have anything against your Christ. I like your Christ, but you are not your Christ" (or something similar to that ), and I am pressed to agree with those sentiments

[Sesquipedalian]

One very, very, very important point regarding Flipside's original question, as seen from a Chrsitian perspective:

The decision about whether you end up with eternal life or eternal destruction does not happen when you die.  That decision will be made only after Jesus returns.  

At that time, everyone will stand before God, and the truth about people's real character will be made clear.  Everyone who, in their heart of hearts, wants to live in a world where God is God and things happen the way God intended, will get that.  Everyone who, in their heart of hearts, would rather die than submit, will get that.  The judgment of Judgment Day consists in determining what the real inclination of your heart is, and letting that inclination be carried to is logical conclusion.

So whether self-proclaimed and practicing Sikh, Jew, Christian, Buddhist, atheist, agnostic, Wiccan, or whatever, none of us are set in our eternal destiny yet.

Thus, the answer to the question is 4: It depends on whether he really wants to live with God when he meets him.

[Unknown Target]

All that is, of course, if you believe in the Christian God.

[Ghostavo]

Originally posted by Sapphire


Ahhh....the infinite confusion about the concept of the Trinity.  Remember...  "God" is made up of 3 parts: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.  Sorta like an egg is made up of: white, yolk, and shell.

Each part is definite and can be separated from the others, yet together they make up the whole.

Its a slippery slope and like a fool I will probably run headlong down it in attempt to explain, and crash and burn when I fail.  Good thing that God is compassionate on fools too.

I believe that the separation here was the separation of Son  from the Father and Holy Spirit.   At that moment...Godhood was far from him, simply because God cannot co-exist with sin--and the Bible tells us that he became sin on the cross...our sins, so that we didn't have to suffer the ultimate wages of those sins.

Does that help a little bit?

A bit

*will never understand the complexity of a trinity godhood in a monotheistic religion*

Originally posted by Unknown Target
Thus, sex is actually considered a very good thing in Wicca, as it gives us the same power as the God and Goddess.

*starts a religion with shivans as gods, in which only people who have played FS will go to heaven, those who don't have hallfight to figure out for eternity*

[ShadowWolf_IH]

Thank you UT for clearing up the Dark and Light garbage.  Obviously I am not Wiccan.  That does not mean that i haven't studied it extensively.  I believe in spirits.  Not the hokey crap that we see in movies, but spirits themselves....a sentient energy if you will.  I am having a great deal of trouble finding the right words...anyway....what you refer to as Magick is simply having these spirits do work for you.  How you use them, now that is the dark and light of it.  I don't believe in ouija boards or Psychic tarrot over the phone, however when seen in the proper light of things, divination is something to be reckoned with.

I think that the problem lies in the fact that when we deal in divination, we are loosing things, and what is loosed in the heavens is loosed on earth.  Which is to say that what we do in spiritual realm does have ramifications on us, here.  Too many people look to wicca as a source of power, when in reality it is quite beautiful.  One of the best statements i have ever heard concerning Wiccan faith verses Christian Faith, is "all gods are one god and all goddesses are one goddess, there is but one initiator."  I have always liked that statemnent as a good way of saying that we all worship the same being.

The problem is, when dealing with these spirits, some call them angels and demons, we loose something that is an imitator, something that is not here for good.  Something that will have us "buy the lie" until we suddenly find ourselves drinking the blood of animals and calling forth satan.  

The simple fact that we as people who believe in a spiritual existence have a hard time distinguishing between the two, is why God doesn't practicing that.  It's not that Magick is an evil thing, it's just that we are 2 years old and playing with a blowtorch.  If you get my meaning.

Do you know how many die hard baptists would slaughter me for this?  I think that when i think of wicca, i correlate it to the manifestation gifts of the holy spirit found in Romans.  I think that of the things that wiccans use spirits for, christians use the holy spirit for.  I think that while we may not be using the same spirit, we are in fact pure of heart in our intent.

i hope that this has made sense.

[Flipside]

Originally posted by Unknown Target



Yes, parts of Wicca is startlingly like "The Force" actually

However, there is no "light" or "dark" magick. There is magick, and what you choose to do with it is what makes it light or dark. It's up to the person to decide how they use the tool

Precisely, which, I think is how Lucas envisioned the Force, one Force, but several different ways of using it

Take, for example, the trick of sealing up an item of the persons belongings in a bottle. Depending on how it's done, that is believed to either inhibit or protect them, the Magick is the same, but the use of it changes.

[Unknown Target]

I can't comment on your example, Flipside, as I have only heard of, never seen, a physical manifestation of magick

In response to Shadowolf. Yes, I have heard of, and do believe in, evil spirits, and I actually think quite a few people do. That website (www.wicca.com) actually explains a lot of it, and I'm inclined to agree with what he says

But yes, I do think that Christians and Wiccans  may use the same spirits, however, I haven't put much thought into it, so I can't make an informed statement. Besides, you seem to have a quite good grasp of Wicca, so I don't think you need any further clarification

[Flipside]

Yeah, I've been good friends with a White witch for quite a while now. even jumped the Broomstick at her wedding. We've had some interesting discussions on the matter. The technique is known as 'Bottling', which suggests why Wicca had some trouble catching on in Scotland, since if you tell someone in Glasgow you plan to Bottle them, you better be running away at the time

Basically it's up to the person doing the 'Bottling' what sort of influence it would have.

That said, I personally have found the World tends to do what it will, regardless of how hard we try to tell it otherwise

[vyper]

I just got visions of a White Witch glassing someone...


It shouldn't be funny but it is.

[Flipside]

I get visions of Gandalf, broken bottle in one hand, half a pool cue in the other, standing before the gates of Mordor shouting, 'Come on ya Bastards! I'll take on the lot o' ye!'

[aldo_14]

Bloody doormen, eh?

[ShadowWolf_IH]

wow....5 pages of religeous tpoic without a fight and suddenly gandolf is trying to stop people from using the bathroom.

[Unknown Target]

Ya know...? I was just thinking this was the most civil religious thread HLP has ever had.


whoops, jinxed it

[Flipside]

'D'Yez have a problem wi' me using the Bathroom laddie?'

LOL

Edit : Agreed UT, it's been quite refreshing, but a little light humour makes sure things don't get too intense

[aldo_14]

Oh ****, I knew I shouldn't have had that curry........

[Ghostavo]

Image hosted by Angelfire...

[icespeed]

you guys know what the _best_ thing about this thread is? no one's slandered the Christians as mindless idiots, and the Christians haven't slandered anyone else as mindless idiots, and there's an equally interesting discussion of wicca going on at the same time which hasn't been pushed aside by people clamouring to flame the Christians.

i'm curious about what wicca has to say about actually living your life. is that cobbled together as well out of whichever religious tenets you choose to have, or is there a kind of overarching directive like 'be good' or something? what actual effect does wicca have on someone's life?

oh, and good on ya, sapphire, for trying to answer questions about trinity. God knows it's hard stuff.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Ghostavo
Image hosted by Angelfire...

balls.  1 sec.

Fixed.

Originally posted by icespeed
you guys know what the _best_ thing about this thread is? no one's slandered the Christians as mindless idiots, and the Christians haven't slandered anyone else as mindless idiots, and there's an equally interesting discussion of wicca going on at the same time which hasn't been pushed aside by people clamouring to flame the Christians.
 

I think 90% are genuinely interested in what other people think, so long as noones pushing stuff onto them (be it religious or anti-religious).  At the least it lets you quantify your own belief structure.