[WeatherOp]

I don't agree with it ether, but I'm keeping my mouth shut, why I don't.

[Mongoose]

I don't agree with the vast majority of that, but I do applaud your efforts to write up something about what you believe in.

[Deepblue]

Oky dokey. *avoids political statements, but would like to make it known that there are some to be said*

[Deepblue]

You realize of course that the vast majority of people have already made up their minds and those that haven't don't really deserve to vote? (I think people should be required to research and answer simple factual (simple [unspinnable]) information on canidates before being alowed to vote.)

[Unknown Target]

I'm trying to attempt an old trick at getting people to get up and fight for their rights: inspiring nationalism. One of the main problems with America today is that we don't have a national identity anymore, like we did in the 40s, therefore, no one feels a sense of unity to the nation. If you inspire nationalism and get the vast majority of the people to rally behind their country, changes will occur.


EDIT: And dissention is welcome, so long as it has a valid argument backing it, and is delievered in a well-meaning fashion. You can't have liberty without listening to other people, even if you don't agree

[Deepblue]

There is a sense of national identity, just not as much on the side of the fence you are playing to. Not to mention the fact that the US has become a much more global country than it was in the 40s.

[Unknown Target]

Exactly, and with that global power, we have lost that identity. Our identity is McDonalds, strip malls, etc.

I just want an identity that says "This is America," one that allows us to rally behind a war (I'm not saying the Iraq war is good, I'm just saying any war), and put our entire nation into it.
It's scary when you go to the states these days. Some people don't know who our president is, and most everyone doesn't even notice that our sons and daughters are dying in an unjust war.
Now that we're there, I think we should see it through, but how about having some sort of support from the home country, hm? What's the point of giving rights and freedoms to another country, when we are losing sight of the things that we stand for? Look at the treatment of POWs in WWII, and compare it to today. Publicly, at least, it's kind of scary how far we've dipped.

[Mongoose]

I don't want to make any real political comments, since I know how easily they generate into flamewars here. But I do want to take note of one thing you said in your last post, about the treatment of POWs.  I'm willing to bet that, in WWII at least, there were many abuses of German POWs that never made the media.  Look at the beginning of the movie Saving Private Ryan, for example, where the GIs shot the surrendering German soldiers.  I know that's a movie, but I have heard non-fictional accounts of such actions.  They've happened in pretty much every war throughout history, no matter how "noble" one side seems.  Face it:  the expression "war is hell" isn't just a catch phrase.  Personally, I think that, since the time of Vietnam, there haven't been any real changes in the treatment of POWs; rather, I think that the abuses that do take place have been placed much more in the public eye, for better or worse.

[Unknown Target]

Yes, I do know that abuses took place before. I never denyed that. But what reason is that to continue the trend?
Even if the abuses then were just as bad as they are now, then why continue that trend? Why not be the better person/country, and rise above that?

[Flipside]

Originally posted by Deepblue
There is a sense of national identity, just not as much on the side of the fence you are playing to. Not to mention the fact that the US has become a much more global country than it was in the 40s.

Exactly... A Global Presence with an identity that only encompasses the core Nation.

Precisely the same mistake us British made when we went building an Empire. And the outcome will, alas, be the same.

[Deepblue]

If only kids today cared a whit... Maybe some hard times would do us (some) good, even if it would be bad. Then again I'm all in favor of not having such a thing, but if it happens it is only our fault.

[Scuddie]

The way I see it, is that why we dont have the same national image as we did back in the '40s, is the same reason why we have the same image as we did in the '20s.  Back in the '20s, as it also is now, we acquired so much height and wealth, that people didnt even care anymore.  We lost almost all respect for our country, and we took everything for granted.  Then, something happened.  Our existance was threatened.  And when I say that, I dont mean some petty 9/11 horse****.  I mean our way of life was literally in the jaws of the beast.

Look at the history of American Culture.  The same thing happened prior to the Revolutionary War and Civil War.  Our way of life was legitimately at stake before we were nationalistic at all.  We are now the same way as we were those times.  We are a sleeping giant, and nothing short of a rude awakening will wake us up.

I know my thoughts are unorganised and such, but thats how I see it.

[Scuddie]

EDIT: WTF?  I only clicked once, I swear!

[Tiara]

Originally posted by Unknown Target

It's scary when you go to the states these days. Some people don't know who our president is

This reminds me of a quite hilarious documentary I've seen. A Dutch reporter went to America (NY, DC, Miami and some smaller cities/towns) and asked them some very simple questions. This documentary was made about 3 months after 9/11.

He asked people 'Who is the current President?' Some answered with 'Clinton' (though most knew it was bush. But even then they had trouble with the question 'Jr. or Sr.?').

He also asked 'Where is Holland?'. About 10% knew the rest said Africa, Russia, Canada, Asia or part of Germany.

Next was 'Where is the Netherlands?'. Some even said 'In Hell, the Netherworld.' But once again, only a few people knew.

The following question was 'What's the difference between Holland and the Netherlands?'. And this is where me cheeks began to hurt from laughing.

And one of the last question was 'Do you know who was responsible for 9/11?' And this scared the **** out of me. About 10% said it was the Europeans. Roughly the same amount of people were adamant that the Russian Commies were behind it.

There were more questions but i can't remember those.

To be fair, there were also quite a few smarter people (most of them) who knew this stuff and gave sensible answers. But geography obviously isn't America's strong suit. Most of 'm couldn't point to Brittain on a world map.

[Unknown Target]

Once again, all of the reasons stated above is why I'm trying to induce nationalism in America any way I can

[vyper]

Originally posted by Flipside


Exactly... A Global Presence with an identity that only encompasses the core Nation.

Precisely the same mistake us British made when we went building an Empire. And the outcome will, alas, be the same.

I'd just like to say I don't believe we made a mistake at all. We're still here, we've built an empire and got the t-shirt, and come out of it all with the Commonwealth.

[Tiara]

Originally posted by Unknown Target
Once again, all of the reasons stated above is why I'm trying to induce nationalism in America any way I can

America is overflowing with nationalism. That's the whole reason most people know diddly squat about what is happening in the rest of the world. They don't care.

The best thing you can do is try to make people more aware of the fact that America isn't the center of the universe. Because sadly so, that is how many (Note; not all) Americans perceive their country. They see America as the biggest, best and most powerful nation on the planet and don't look beyond that.

Sure, it is the most powerful nation. But with power comes responsibility. With power comes the increased vulnerability of making mistakes. Once people truly begin to understand this instread of boasting about it, then you will see a definate improvement.

[Unknown Target]

That's not the kind of nationalism I am looking for, Tiara. I am looking for nationalism not rooted in the power of the country, but instead of the ideals that birthed it. If nationalism and pride in the founding father's vision is promoted, then I believe that yes, the United States will regain what it used to have.

[vyper]

I admire your idealism and optomism, but I pity your sense of reality sir. I do not intend this as an insult, as we all spend a long time trying to find the truth of what our own nation is.  However, you must remember that there has never been such a thing as a black  and white situation. Perhaps you should look at the history of your nation in detail before you laud it's founders' "vision" with such vigour.

Certainly, my loyalty to the British Crown exists only so long as a "better" and more globally peaceful system of Government is in absentia.

[Janos]

It's pretty emotional but lacking in cold facts, and that's why it doesn't affect me at all.

Be more precise. Cut back on the religion part.