[kane544]

Hey guys maybe you should check this out if you are interested

http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/us_missiledefence/index.html

[IceFire]

I have mixed feelings but I understand the motivation behind rejecting Canadas participating...its political.  None of the opposition parties want it and we're in a minority government situation.  I doubt Paul Martin wants this issue to be the one that topples the government and sends us back to the polls.

[Rictor]

Yeah, I heard about this yesterday. Props to Martin for not bowing to the pressure.

I'm delighted.

[Deepblue]

In other news, they actually got a succesful test (finally).

[IceFire]

Originally posted by Deepblue
In other news, they actually got a succesful test (finally).

Which means it may work sometime against one missile.  I'm told that even 5 or 6 ICBM launches would more than overwhelm the system as it is planned to be.

Right now its a pipedream.  Give them 20 years and it may be something more

[Fractux]

I'm still not entirely sure where I stand on missile defense at this point, so I'm not really ready to voice my final opinion on that (though I do lean heavily towards not supporting it) but I do have gripes about the way that this issue was handled politically.

It was obvious from the beginning that the majority of Canadians don't support putting in place this proposed system because it really is a giant waste of money. As it stands now, if we want to put money into defence, maybe we could put this money towards finding ways of limmiting the number of people we piss off around the world? (not that it's always possible, but more often than not it could be when the sticks are removed.)

Which ties back into my gripe about how the political aspect of this was handled. The Liberal Party were hemming and hawing about  its position on missile defense (which it was going to suupport if it could, as is evidenced by the image that the US was getting from the government ), but the present political situation (being a minority gov.) doesn't allow them to push it through.

Basically, the goverment finds itself in a political bind, and so they give in to the realisation that trying to get this through is only going to make them look worse, and not get re-elected by loosing even more ground in Quebec (which still is possible, and frankly should happen).

This happens all the time, yes there's no doubt about it. But this was a really big issue to flop around on, considering the implications it has not only for NORAD, but for the entire world's perception of Canada.

[aldo_14]

Personally, I'd support missile defense if a) everyone had it, and b) it was 100% effective against massive nuclear strikes.  But at the moment it's just a white elephant to give an illusion of security.... and what annoys me is the placement of radar stations (i.e. targets) in the UK when we're not covered by the system....

[Styxx]

This whole Anti-missile Shield ruckus of late is just plain silly, IMO. If they really want a system that works, they should get back to nuclear tipped anti-missile missiles, something like an improved range HIBEX, which could intercept incoming ICBMs real fast and high. Just make the cleanest possible warhead for them. Having to rely on kinetic kills or getting close enough for a chemical warhead to do enough damage is asking for trouble.

[Janos]

why do they hayte teh FREEEEEEEEEEDUUUUUUUM

[Roanoke]

guess it sucks to be America's neighbour huh ? All you guys need is one pissed off middle eastern country to fire a less-than-well maintained ex-soviet missile and for said missile to go a "little" off course...

[Fractux]

Originally posted by Roanoke
guess it sucks to be America's neighbour huh ? All you guys need is one pissed off middle eastern country to fire a less-than-well maintained ex-soviet missile and for said missile to go a "little" off course...

I'm guessing that may have always been part of the plan. I mean, during the cold war, if anything were to have happened Canada would be one big battle ground between the two powers. Fun Fun...

[Ford Prefect]

Originally posted by Janos
why do they hayte teh FREEEEEEEEEEDUUUUUUUM

'Cause they've let Satan into their households!

[Rictor]

Number of missles that have been fired at the US in all of history:
0

Number of nations in possesion of adequate technology:
Probably less than a dozen.

Nations which would seriously contemplate such an act:
0

Cost to taxpayers:
Several billion, if not several hundred billion, and counting.

Support among Canadians:
maybe 20%, and thats being generous.

Can you imagine a world in which America acts with even greater impunity than it does now? Yeah, thats why I oppose the missle shield, and especially Canada's involvement in it.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Fractux


I'm guessing that may have always been part of the plan. I mean, during the cold war, if anything were to have happened Canada would be one big battle ground between the two powers. Fun Fun...

Designated nuclear whipping boy.

[Fractux]

Just reading through some articles at theRegister and I though I'd take this quote and have some fun with it, since we are on the subject:

[http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/02/25/aegis_missile_test/]

Aegis is not, however, simply an anti-missile system. Lockheed Martin describes it as "the world's premier naval defense system" and notes that it "can simultaneously attack land targets, submarines, and surface ships while automatically implementing defenses to protect the fleet against aircraft and missiles."

The year was 20XX, and Jimmy the Aegis Comptroller has a bad day...

JIMMY: Enemy targets being acquired, Sir.

AEGIS: Targets aquired. Prioritising threats.

JIMMY: Ah crap, it identified a friendly as an enemy.
[typing into AEGIS] -> unlock target 47862 friendly].

AEGIS: System has identified target 47862 as a threat.

JIMMY: Dammit you stupid machine.  -> unlock target 47862 friendly overide code 7894BA69

AEGIS: System has identified target 47862 as a threat. Possible subversive hacking attempt detected. target JIMMY defined as threat.

JIMMY: Ah crap. Uh... Sir... I think we need tech support ASAP.

[Grey Wolf]

There's only been about two countries who have had the will and the technology to attack the mainland United States: the Soviet Union and Cuba. Cuba had its missiles taken back, and the Soviet Union collapsed. So who are we afraid of attacking? Are we afraid that North Korea will nuke the Aleutians? Or perhaps we're afraid that Jacques Chirac will nuke New York? There's no point to this now, even less than when it was first proposed in the Reagan administration.

[Gank]

But think of the jobs it creates in the defense industry.

[Bobboau]

ok, we don't want to put missles in you country, we don't want you to help pay for it, not participateing isn't going to change a damned thing as to weather we go through on it or not, only on weather we defend you in the (admitadly very unlikely) event that we see a missle comeing at you. at worst a nation you hate waists a ****load of tax dollars on a political distraction, at best millions of people's lives are saved. why are you doing this?

[Rictor]

Cause the threat is too remote to justify spending billions of Canadian dollars. America can do what it wants with the missle shield, thats their own thing, but Canada shouldn't pour it money and influence into something thats not only ineffective, but costly as well (and not just financially, but politically as well).

Aside from that, I think pretty much the whole world, Canada included, is looking to sabotage American dominance right now, even if its just in tiny ways like this. They don't want America to become powerless, but I think the governments of the world, especially the rich ad influential ones, are concerned that America might be getting just a bit too strong.

Or maybe it has nothing to do with that, and the Liberals just arenn't in a poisition to push through an unpopular policy, considering they have a minority government. Thats probably the most likely answer.

[Rictor]

Grey Wolf. uhm, as far as I know, Cuba never had the will. They just needed arms to protect itself, and since the US pressured the entire Western world into refusing to sell any, Cuba had to turn to the USSR, who took the opportunity to exploit the situation and pretty much made stationing missles in Cuba a prerequisite for any weapons sales. Or at least, thats my understanding of it.