[TrashMan]

Originally posted by pyro-manic
kietotheworld: No - destroying a capship in subspace would be suicide - the node would collapse, and you'd be destroyed along with it. Ship-to-ship combat is a big no-no in subspace. Besides, it'd be almost impossible to get into a position to launch an attack, and even less likely that the attack would be under favourable conditions - just getting into a position where you could follow the Lucifer into subspace would be very difficult.
 

We don't know how big an explosion has to be to collapse the node, but it's surely far greater than a destroyer going off..

remebr that GTVA sent two destroyers packed with meson bombs. Lucifer had those 5 uber-reactors.

So a destroyer or a crovette blowing up would probably NOT collapse the node.. I guess it would shake ita up a bit, causing damage to anything in it or would make it more dangerous to travel for a while...


Beam weapons could not have been copied from the Lucifer, as the front part with the beams is in SOL. Maby they scientists worked something up with the scan results of the Lucifer, but that isn't a real copy - tehy had to design the whole thing by themselves with only a few guidelines.

No, because 1) there wouldn't be room inside the node to get alongside the Lucifer to broadside it, and 2) by destroying the Lucifer inside the node, the Colossus would be committing suicide - the node would collapse around it. See above.

1) there is enough room in subspace
2) How sez the Colli has to destroy it?.. just damage it enough to make it useless (target it's shield generator or main cannons...leave the bloke at 2% hull). When they exit subspace, it's easy pickings from there on.

[Kie99]

Finally someone who agrees with me

@Aldo, would you just leave the people on Earth to die and send a huge fleet at the Lucifer to die, or would you evacuate the Earth and save as many lives as you could?
I personally couldn't say to some people on Earth, sorry you have to die because we won't have enough food could you?

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by TrashMan



We don't know how big an explosion has to be to collapse the node, but it's surely far greater than a destroyer going off..

remebr that GTVA sent two destroyers packed with meson bombs. Lucifer had those 5 uber-reactors.

So a destroyer or a crovette blowing up would probably NOT collapse the node.. I guess it would shake ita up a bit, causing damage to anything in it or would make it more dangerous to travel for a while...

Well, we don't have a lower bound for destroying a node; the GTVA could have played it safe and tried to ensure and equal magnitude explosion to that (estimated) of the Lucifer.  The only canonical thing I've ever read about the required explosion is the equally vague " Furthermore, the Ancients speculate that subspace nodes were quite fragile, and that combat during a jump would surely cause the collapse of the surrounding nodes." from the ref bible.

Possibly that's intentional - maybe V thought they might have to use node collapse as a plot device at some point and wanted to leave it as open as possible.

Originally posted by TrashMan

Beam weapons could not have been copied from the Lucifer, as the front part with the beams is in SOL. Maby they scientists worked something up with the scan results of the Lucifer, but that isn't a real copy - tehy had to design the whole thing by themselves with only a few guidelines.

I think it's most plausible that it's based off of Shivan technology, and probably based off of captured Hades flux lasers.  Of course, it could be something as simple as not having had a powerful enough power source previously.

Perhaps the Vasudans efficiency at engineering (and I assume power sources) and Terran weapons came together here...

Originally posted by TrashMan

1) there is enough room in subspace
2) How sez the Colli has to destroy it?.. just damage it enough to make it useless (target it's shield generator or main cannons...leave the bloke at 2% hull). When they exit subspace, it's easy pickings from there on.

Assuming you can actually target the shield generator.  It might be some property of the surface armour rather than a specific local generator subsystem (it is sheath shielding, after all).

[Cobra]

Originally posted by TrashMan
1) there is enough room in subspace

The only reason the subspace tunnel looks and seems huge is because you're in a fighter. destroyers and juggernauts would probably fill it up nicely.

and as a question to the "Holy crap, half the Lucy came out of subspace!" how did that happen?

and i wonder what happened to the survivors of the attack

and, to the part about beams being developed in Sol: (Follow me on this) In FS2, it was constantly mentioned that all contact (key word: contact) with Sol was lost. how could they have made beams and contacted the now-GTVA about them?

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by kietotheworld

@Aldo, would you just leave the people on Earth to die and send a huge fleet at the Lucifer to die, or would you evacuate the Earth and save as many lives as you could?
I personally couldn't say to some people on Earth, sorry you have to die because we won't have enough food could you?

You'd still be saying to 10 billion that you'd given up on them.

Personally, I'd rather do everything I can to end the invasion right there and then, rather than just keep running away as my species was slaughtered by the Shivans.  Even if the chance of victory was remote at best.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Cobra



and, to the part about beams being developed in Sol: (Follow me on this) In FS2, it was constantly mentioned that all contact (key word: contact) with Sol was lost. how could they have made beams and contacted the now-GTVA about them?

That depends on how they were developed.  IF it was based on Shivan tech, then Sol would definately have had as much information on Shivan technology as the rest of VPN / GTA during the Great War.  It's possible there was already some research of that nature performed during / prior to the war, too.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by aldo_14
Personally, I'd rather do everything I can to end the invasion right there and then, rather than just keep running away as my species was slaughtered by the Shivans.  Even if the chance of victory was remote at best.

Especially as the Ancients just kept retreating and look where it got them.

[Kie99]

There would be NO[/u][/i] chance of victory because you are fighting a ship that has an invulnereable shield!  There would be more chance or survival if you kept running because if you stay in Sol you are all guaranteed to die, and if you run away you have a small chance of Survival.  Attacking the Lucifer is like attacking a rock with your barehands, absolutely pointless!

[Mongoose]

kieto, first of all, there were no other nodes out of Sol.  The Delta Serpentis-Sol node is the only one.  The other nodes shown in the command animations were an error, as was the line by Alpha One in the final monologue; one of the Volition people admitted as much.  They had only ever planned to have one node.  Kind of makes your evacuation impossible, doesn't it?  And, as aldo said above, there's absolutely no way to evacuate billions of people at the drop of a hat.  The final attack on the Lucifer truly was Sol's last hope.

As for the beam weapons, I can't remember the exact location, but I know it was mentioned somewhere in-game that they were reverse-engineered from the Shivans.  It doesn't matter that the Lucifer's wreckage wound up in Sol; as I said above, the alliance had obtained detailed scans of the Lucifer; it also had the Ancients' data to work from.  Obviously, that was enough for them to eventually create working beam cannons.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by kietotheworld
There would be NO[/u][/i] chance of victory because you are fighting a ship that has an invulnereable shield!  There would be more chance or survival if you kept running because if you stay in Sol you are all guaranteed to die, and if you run away you have a small chance of Survival.  Attacking the Lucifer is like attacking a rock with your barehands, absolutely pointless!

But if you run away you're still guaranteed to die, just more slowly.  

As long as you are alive, you have hope - but when you run from battle, and you give up the fight, then you give up that hope.  And at the same time, you condemn yourself.

Originally posted by Mongoose
kieto, first of all, there were no other nodes out of Sol.  The Delta Serpentis-Sol node is the only one.  The other nodes shown in the command animations were an error, as was the line by Alpha One in the final monologue; one of the Volition people admitted as much.  They had only ever planned to have one node.  

To be fair, they did initially plan on having the 3 nodes collapsed by the explosion, but changed their minds for a single node at some point after FS1 was released, simply to prevent confusion.

http://ml.warpcore.org/fdl/199808/msg00110.html

[Cobra]

Originally posted by Mongoose
As for the beam weapons, I can't remember the exact location, but I know it was mentioned somewhere in-game that they were reverse-engineered from the Shivans.  It doesn't matter that the Lucifer's wreckage wound up in Sol; as I said above, the alliance had obtained detailed scans of the Lucifer; it also had the Ancients' data to work from.  Obviously, that was enough for them to eventually create working beam cannons.

i don't remember hearing that.

[neo_hermes]

When you where Piloting the Dragon Fighter and you had  to scan all those Freighters, Cargo containers, Cruisers,  Eva, And the Lucifer. i can't remember the Mission name though.

[Ghostavo]

Playing Judas

[neo_hermes]

That's the one thx Ghostavo

[Cobra]

beam weapons, not fighters. no beams in fs1

[neo_hermes]

what i believe Mongoose is saying is that Alpha 1(PLayer). Scanned the Lucy and Thus Got a highly detailed reading of that Superdestroyer's Power distribution. with that data they where able to make Something Similar to the Shivan Beam cannon/ Flux cannon/ Super Laser whatever you want to call it.

[Mongoose]

Yeah, that's what I was inferring. Those scans gave you adequate data to determine that destroying the five reactors would bring the Lucifer down, so I'm guessing they also obtained at least some data about the Lucifer's shielding and beam cannons.

Cobra, I can't for the life of me remember the exact reference I'm thinking of, but I'm almost positive that I've seen it somewhere.

[Cobra]

Originally posted by neo_hermes
what i believe Mongoose is saying is that Alpha 1(PLayer). Scanned the Lucy and Thus Got a highly detailed reading of that Superdestroyer's Power distribution. with that data they where able to make Something Similar to the Shivan Beam cannon/ Flux cannon/ Super Laser whatever you want to call it.

well, why didn't ya say so?

and btw:

FSPort: Beam Cannon. Original FS1: Flux Cannon/Superlaser

[Kie99]

Sorry but the FS2 beams (At least on the Psamtik) are clearly stated as photon beam cannons, whie the Lucifer's beam is clearly stated as a flux gun.

@Aldo, I think we should agree to disagree, I think running away is the only option which gives a chance of survival and you think the opposite.

[Nuke]

a black hole