Author Topic: What could beat the Lucifer's Shield?  (Read 19003 times)

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Offline WeatherOp

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What could beat the Lucifer's Shield?
Quote
Originally posted by kietotheworld


@weatherop

The Super Lasers on the Hades were reverse engineered but as for the beams in FS2 they are completely different.
 



Sorry I'm so late to respond to this, but yeah the FS2 beams are different, the Mainbeams on the Luci were Shivan Flux Cannons, not Photon Beam cannons. And that makes a question, did the GTI replicate the Flux cannons, and how would they compare to the BFRed or the BFGreen. AS we all know that they destroyed that Vasudan city in one shot, and it left most of V-Prime uninhabitable, whitch means they could cause some radiation, and thats why I think they are Nuclear based. And that means the Luci's shields wouldn't be the main problem, if Flux cannons are far more powerful than Phazers.
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Offline Kie99

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What could beat the Lucifer's Shield?
Quote
Originally posted by Nuke
a black hole :D


What are you talking about?  Oh the Original Post, we've got so off-topic here.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2005, 10:28:08 am by 1934 »
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Offline Cobra

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What could beat the Lucifer's Shield?
Quote
Originally posted by WeatherOp



Sorry I'm so late to respond to this, but yeah the FS2 beams are different, the Mainbeams on the Luci were Shivan Flux Cannons, not Photon Beam cannons. And that makes a question, did the GTI replicate the Flux cannons, and how would they compare to the BFRed or the BFGreen. AS we all know that they destroyed that Vasudan city in one shot, and it left most of V-Prime uninhabitable, whitch means they could cause some radiation, and thats why I think they are Nuclear based. And that means the Luci's shields wouldn't be the main problem, if Flux cannons are far more powerful than Phazers.


:v: was too lazy to make proper beams for the Lucy. their answer was the Flux Cannons. ever seen the .tbl of the Lucifer? compare both Lucy's for both games. the FS1 version has flux cannons, and the FS2 version has LReds.
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Offline aldo_14

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What could beat the Lucifer's Shield?
Quote
Originally posted by kietotheworld
Sorry but the FS2 beams (At least on the Psamtik) are clearly stated as photon beam cannons, whie the Lucifer's beam is clearly stated as a flux gun.

Aren't they only referred to that in the tbl turret entry, though? And I doubt 'megafunk' is a technically sound type of laser....

Quote
Originally posted by kietotheworld
@Aldo, I think we should agree to disagree, I think running away is the only option which gives a chance of survival and you think the opposite.


Agree!  Never!!!!  :D

Ach, fair enough.  Point of arguements on the internet isn't to agree, it's to post both sides of the arguement as  far as possible and / or annoy the other person.

 

Offline Kie99

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What could beat the Lucifer's Shield?
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14

Aren't they only referred to that in the tbl turret entry, though? And I doubt 'megafunk' is a technically sound type of laser....



Agree!  Never!!!!  :D


Well now we can have another argument instead, the Lucifer's "Beam" isn't the Shivan Megafunk, its the Shian Super Laser, the Megafunk is the bigass plasma blob that comes out of Shivan Destroyers.

The tech description for the Lucifer goes something like: "The Lucifer has 3"(I think it has a turret on its rear) "flux cannons capable of taking down one of our capital ships in a few hits."
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Offline Cobra

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What could beat the Lucifer's Shield?
3 cannons on the front. although there is no 3rd turret on the luci.
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
I wept. Mysterious forces beyond my ken had reached into my beautiful mission and energized its pilots with inhuman bomb-firing abilities. I could only imagine the GTVA warriors giving a mighty KIAAIIIIIII shout as they worked their triggers, their biceps bulging with sinew after years of Ivan Drago-esque steroid therapy and weight training. - General Battuta

 

Offline Kie99

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What could beat the Lucifer's Shield?
Well maybe the 3rd turret is on the back, like I just said.  Or maybe its the one on the side that destroyed the GTD Legion in the cutscene.
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Offline aldo_14

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What could beat the Lucifer's Shield?
Quote
Originally posted by kietotheworld


Well now we can have another argument instead, the Lucifer's "Beam" isn't the Shivan Megafunk, its the Shian Super Laser, the Megafunk is the bigass plasma blob that comes out of Shivan Destroyers.

The tech description for the Lucifer goes something like: "The Lucifer has 3"(I think it has a turret on its rear) "flux cannons capable of taking down one of our capital ships in a few hits."


Actually, I was drawing a parallel between 'flux cannon' and 'megafunk' as being the names of tbl weapons.  But you're right, they are referred to as 'flux' cannons in the FS1 tech db, which I'll admit to not having read recently.

Of course -as was pointed out before - those are replaced by beam weapons for the FS2 table (despite IIRC there being superlasers in the FS2 weapons table anyways).  It's also a bit unclear exactly what a 'flux cannon' is, anyways; possibly it's just an alternate form of beam weapon.

The FS1 cutscenes do refer to the Lucifer having what is clearly a beam weapon, though (excluding the obvious vprime weapon);

[q][cut to under shot of the SD’s big gun array.  It starts to reconfigure and “draw light” to itself.]

[cut to shot of one crewmember]

Crew-1:      Oh, no!  [like he/she is the first to realize what’s happening]

[cut back to gun]
A huge energy beam blasts out from the gun!

[cut to shot of beam tearing into the Cruiser as it gets thrown back from the blast]

[cut to shot of assault troops at window, being thrown against the window from the impact]

[cut to shot of beam making its way across the Cruiser, slicing it up]
[/q]

 

Offline Kie99

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What could beat the Lucifer's Shield?
Yeah they're probably different kinds of beams, the Lucifer's beams are in Sol so they couldn't really do any research on them, and a broken down Dragon's scanner won't do much, IMHO.

Isn't it good how simlair (I always put an extra 'i' of 'a' between the M and the L in that word)  the cutscene's depiction of beams is to FreeSpace 2's beams.
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Offline TrashMan

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What could beat the Lucifer's Shield?
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14


Well, we don't have a lower bound for destroying a node; the GTVA could have played it safe and tried to ensure and equal magnitude explosion to that (estimated) of the Lucifer.  The only canonical thing I've ever read about the required explosion is the equally vague " Furthermore, the Ancients speculate that subspace nodes were quite fragile, and that combat during a jump would surely cause the collapse of the surrounding nodes." from the ref bible.

Possibly that's intentional - maybe V thought they might have to use node collapse as a plot device at some point and wanted to leave it as open as possible.


I don't recall ever hearing or reading that sentance in FS. Anyway, the GTVA didn't use 1-2 meson boimbs, they packed the destroer full.. stripped away everything except the engine. It has al least 20 Meson Bombs there.. that's FAR more then a destroyer blowibng up.

Quote

Assuming you can actually target the shield generator.  It might be some property of the surface armour rather than a specific local generator subsystem (it is sheath shielding, after all). [/B]


It definately has a generator.
And regardless, in subspace, Colossuss could tear the vital parts of the Lucy. If you can't target the generator, then you can the cannons or engines.
What threat would the Lucifer be if it's unable to move or fire?
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Offline Carl

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What could beat the Lucifer's Shield?
Quote
Originally posted by neo_hermes
Shivan Beam cannon/ Flux cannon/ Super Laser whatever you want to call it.


The cannons themselves are called flux cannons. the laser that shoots out of the flux cannons is called the shivan super laser.
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Offline aldo_14

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What could beat the Lucifer's Shield?
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan


I don't recall ever hearing or reading that sentance in FS. Anyway, the GTVA didn't use 1-2 meson boimbs, they packed the destroer full.. stripped away everything except the engine. It has al least 20 Meson Bombs there.. that's FAR more then a destroyer blowibng up.


I did say it was from the Ref Bible.  

Also, the Lucifer was an incredibly powerful ship; whose to say that it didn't explode with that amount of power? Or maybe the GTVA just guessed?

Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
It definately has a generator.
And regardless, in subspace, Colossuss could tear the vital parts of the Lucy. If you can't target the generator, then you can the cannons or engines.
What threat would the Lucifer be if it's unable to move or fire?


Those were the reactors, not specific shield generators.  There was no specifically denoted shield subsystem on the Lucifer.

 

Offline Cobra

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What could beat the Lucifer's Shield?
not unless you make one :D
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
I wept. Mysterious forces beyond my ken had reached into my beautiful mission and energized its pilots with inhuman bomb-firing abilities. I could only imagine the GTVA warriors giving a mighty KIAAIIIIIII shout as they worked their triggers, their biceps bulging with sinew after years of Ivan Drago-esque steroid therapy and weight training. - General Battuta

 

Offline FireCrack

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What could beat the Lucifer's Shield?
Anyone consider it possible that the full name is somthing along the lines of

Photon flux beam cannon.
actualy, mabye not.
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Offline WeatherOp

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What could beat the Lucifer's Shield?
I don't think so, I checked what the dictionary said about Flux,
tr. 1. To melt; fuse. 2. To apply a flux to.

So, I'm guessing it's kinda like a fire beam, maybe a step up ahead of Photon beam cannons, and would explain why it looks like a stream of fire in the cutscenes. Maybe, the Luci creates a nuclear reaction, and focuses it, and fires it some how.
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Offline WMCoolmon

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What could beat the Lucifer's Shield?
Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan


I don't recall ever hearing or reading that sentance in FS. Anyway, the GTVA didn't use 1-2 meson boimbs, they packed the destroer full.. stripped away everything except the engine. It has al least 20 Meson Bombs there.. that's FAR more then a destroyer blowibng up.


Going by the mailing list thing that's been going around, we've never seen other jump nodes get destroyed besidfes the one the dying ship was in (In sol's case, the other two nodes were transported to writer's limbo shortly before ST).

We have no clue what the Ancients were tossing at the Shivans either, or if they were even right (For them, 'fragile' might mean 'couple hundred meson bombs' ;) ). Or it could be that some jump nodes actually grow more stable with time, or that there's some sort of difference between if a ship is detonated while entering subspace or while exiting subspace.
Or, perhaps jump nodes are sensitive only to certain frequences of vibration. A single massive explosion might damage surrounding jump nodes less than several smaller ones.
-C

 

Offline FireCrack

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actualy, mabye not.
"When ink and pen in hands of men Inscribe your form, bipedal P They draw an altar on which God has slaughtered all stability, no eyes could ever soak in all the places you anoint, and yet to see you all at once we only need the point. Flirting with infinity, your geometric progeny that fit inside you oh so tight with triangles that feel so right."
3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944 59230781640628620899862803482534211706...
"Your ever-constant homily says flaw is discipline, the patron saint of imperfection frees us from our sin. And if our transcendental lift shall find a final floor, then Man will know the death of God where wonder was before."

 
 

Offline Mongoose

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What could beat the Lucifer's Shield?
Quote
Originally posted by FireCrack
Anyone consider it possible that the full name is somthing along the lines of

Photon flux beam cannon.

Exactly.  As far as I'm concerned, at least, the Shivan super laser/flux cannon is the same exact thing as FS2's beam cannons.

 

Offline Cobra

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What could beat the Lucifer's Shield?
just a different use of energy.

although if LRed's replaced the SSL in FS2, why didn't :v: make beams for the FS1 Lucy in the first place?

*prepares to get flamed*
To consider the Earth as the only populated world in infinite space is as absurd as to assert that in an entire field of millet, only one grain will grow. - Metrodorus of Chios
I wept. Mysterious forces beyond my ken had reached into my beautiful mission and energized its pilots with inhuman bomb-firing abilities. I could only imagine the GTVA warriors giving a mighty KIAAIIIIIII shout as they worked their triggers, their biceps bulging with sinew after years of Ivan Drago-esque steroid therapy and weight training. - General Battuta