Poll

Ravana or Demon

Ravana
30 (60%)
Demon
20 (40%)

Total Members Voted: 48

Voting closed: March 07, 2005, 05:20:19 am

Author Topic: Ravana Vs. Demon  (Read 6067 times)

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Offline aldo_14

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Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan


What are the chances that a 2km long ship will be placed DIRECTLY in front?
 ust 1-2° left or right and it can shoot... it has great fire coverage...


What are the chances that the Shivans will know their ships best offensive position and maneuver to take advantage?

Quite high, I'd wager.

 

Offline Kie99

  • 211
And what are the chances that a GTVA will deploy Trebuchet-armed fighters to destroy the beams.

Quite high I'd wager :p
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Offline aldo_14

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And what are the chances the Shivans would deploy interceptors to intercept the GTVA bombers?

Quite high I'd wager.

Better put the kettle on, this could go on for a while.......

 

Offline Kie99

  • 211
And what are the chances that the GTVA would deploy escorts?

Quite High I'd wager.

Regardless, by the time the Ravana's beams were in range they would have been destroyed by Trebuchets.  And even if the Ravana jumped in right next to the Hecate/Orion, it would only be able to get a few shots off before the Trebuchet's nerfed it or the Hecate/Orion jumped out.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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The Ravana has an excellent chance to maul a destroyer whose fighter escort isn't paying attention, or blow up something smaller.

On the other hand, a wing of Perseus fighters armed with Trebs, or even MX-64s, will almost always get through to knock out the beams.
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Offline Ghostavo

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Any likely scenario of disarming the beams of the Ravana can too be applied to the Demon...
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Not really. You need bombs to kill the beams on a Demon. The turrets are much tougher. Even paired Cyclops bombs aren't enough. The Demon can also shoot back, but the Ravana has no antifighter coverage for its beams.
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Offline Kie99

  • 211
Completely exposed and unprotected, unlike the Sathanas where that Flak rips down your shields while you're waiting 30 seconds for your next Helios.

IMO a Demon with a wing of dragons (ph34r) would have a better chance of destroying a Hecate with 4 Herc IIs escort than a Ravana in the same scenario.
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Offline Charismatic

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Well the Ravana's fightercover is alright in most missions, it gives the escorting fighters and the bombers a hell of a run for their money. I dont remember how good the Demons' fighter cover is. Yes the turrets can reach you and the turrets are stronger, i dont think the turrets of the Demon give you much of a run for your money. You can sit there  next to a turret 200 m out and bomb it, without much worry of fighters.. IIRC
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Offline aldo_14

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Quote
Originally posted by kietotheworld
And what are the chances that the GTVA would deploy escorts?

Quite High I'd wager.

Regardless, by the time the Ravana's beams were in range they would have been destroyed by Trebuchets.  And even if the Ravana jumped in right next to the Hecate/Orion, it would only be able to get a few shots off before the Trebuchet's nerfed it or the Hecate/Orion jumped out.


That's assuming that a) the Shivans can't do very precise jumps and
b) the GTVA would have Trebuchet armed bombers prepped in the launch-bay or on patrol.

And also c) that the GTVA ship was able to jump out (due to recharge / damage) and that the Shivans wouldn't target the engines to stop them escaping.

Of course, making an enemy withdraw damaged can count as a victory too, if that enemy ship is in a tactically key position; particularly a destroyer, which is responsible for fighter escorts and patrols.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

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*cough*

Perseus wing on CAP with Trebs. I find that highly likely, considering it is, after all, an interceptor, and the Trebuchet is the signature interceptor's missile. It doesn't need a bomber to carry it.

And a Ravana without its beams is in trouble. A Demon can probably still escape, with its heavier armor, but a Ravana probably won't stand up to BGreen hits too well.

Another funny thing I've noticed: Shivan capital ships rarely jump in with escort. They jump in and launch escorts, or they're already in-mission and so are the escorts when you arrive, but they don't jump in with escort fighters deployed already. I suppose that might have been coincidental, though...
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Offline Kie99

  • 211
Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14


That's assuming that a) the Shivans can't do very precise jumps
Well I did address that point in the post

Quote
even if the Ravana jumped in right next to the Hecate/Orion, it would only be able to get a few shots off before the Trebuchet's nerfed it or the Hecate/Orion jumped out.
[/color]
and
b) the GTVA would have Trebuchet armed bombers prepped in the launch-bay or on patrol.

Even a few Harpoons/Tornadoes along with a Subach can take out the Ravana's beams.  Not to mention the fact that most Admirals would insist on an escort with Trebuchets (IMO)

And also c) that the GTVA ship was able to jump out (due to recharge / damage) and that the Shivans wouldn't target the engines to stop them escaping.

Well they wouldn't need to jump out if the Ravana had all the efectiveness of a pointy ornament

Of course, making an enemy withdraw damaged can count as a victory too, if that enemy ship is in a tactically key position; particularly a destroyer, which is responsible for fighter escorts and patrols. [/B]
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Offline aldo_14

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Well, I should point out this is a circular argument; there's no such thing as an uncounterable strategy, it's the timing you have to devise and implement that stratey that makes the difference.

Perseus with Trebs can be countered by escort fighters, AAAf beams or simply running diversionary attacks to draw away the destroyers fighters before an attack.

Ravana can jump in at the GTVA destroyers weak spots - front, rear, probably top or bottom - and attack there.  In particular, attacking the rear to disable the destroyer, launching a defensive screen of interceptors, and them possibly raking the ship with its beams or focusing on the rear solely.

An admiral might insist on Trebuchets and escort, but you don't always get what you want in war; the Shivans might divert the escort as mentioned earlier, or cut off the supply chain of munitions.

  A pariticular issue being the fighter cover of the fleet; the Shivans have a distinct advantage in having smaller fighter carrying cruisers, which means they don't need to rely on destroyers for the escort of their entire fleet.

IMO the Shivans would win, simply because they have the numbers to tie up every GTVA asset and thus manipulate the battle to their ends.  I don't think the GTVA could engage the Shivans in any sort of large scale front and maintain a tactical advantage.

Thus, I think the Shivans would be in a position to use the Ravana tactically, and as a result the Ravana would be used more effectively than the Demon due to its more focused firepower.

 

Offline Kie99

  • 211
It only takes 4 Trebuchet's to kill the beams of a Ravana, or a few more harpoons, if a destroyer was so cut off from supplies by Shivans attacking convoys then sure, maybe the Ravana would win, but I would fancy 4 Perseuses to be able to kill the beams without using any secondaries.
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Offline aldo_14

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If the Perseuses can survive.  PRoblem is that we can't really determine that based on FS2 because the AI is useless; and  if we extend the player abilities to cover all GTVA pilots, why not also all Shivan pilots?

 

Offline Nuclear1

  • 211
Then the game would be insanely unbalanced.

A full-length movie or a cutscene, however, would be awesome to show this off. Just like how the turrets fire in the FS2 intro compared to the turrets in-game.
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Offline Kie99

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Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
If the Perseuses can survive.  PRoblem is that we can't really determine that based on FS2 because the AI is useless; and  if we extend the player abilities to cover all GTVA pilots, why not also all Shivan pilots?


Sure the Perseuses might die but they would almost certainly be able to get a few shots off at the turrets, and by the time they were dead a few more fighters would probably have arrived.
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Offline aldo_14

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Quote
Originally posted by kietotheworld


Sure the Perseuses might die but they would almost certainly be able to get a few shots off at the turrets, and by the time they were dead a few more fighters would probably have arrived.


If there were more fighters available.  And there's no guarentee the perseus' would get enough shots to stop the Ravana doing massive damage to the GTVA ship.

 

Offline Janos

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In more or less equal situation (h2h) Ravana would own every GTVA vessel, as well as Demon (which is a cooler design, but it doesn't matter).
lol wtf

 

Offline Kie99

  • 211
A destroyer is supposed to have a large amount of fighters onboard, I don't think it will sit there not deploying any of them.  There must be a lot of fighters on standby for such an attack.
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