Poll

Ravana or Demon

Ravana
30 (60%)
Demon
20 (40%)

Total Members Voted: 48

Voting closed: March 07, 2005, 05:20:19 am

Author Topic: Ravana Vs. Demon  (Read 6084 times)

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Online Kie99

  • 211
Quote
Originally posted by ngtm1r
Bait-and-switch...hmm...if I hadn't sworn off Shivans in a campaign for a year or so...


:wtf: I can't make any sense of that post.
"You shot me in the bollocks, Tim"
"Like I said, no hard feelings"

 

Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
  • 213
Quote
Originally posted by kietotheworld


They are trained to avoid Shivan escort fighters and they will only need a couple of seconds to do this.

Shivans are 'trained' to destroy fighters trying to evade them.

They can be 4999 Metres away from each beam, and each set their missiles to dual fire mode.

So they'll be flying far escort?  What happens if something jumps in close to the destroyer?  Or simply jumps in at the opposite side, in such a way as the fighters need to fly several km just to get in range?  Or are you suggesting they will somehow guess exactly where the Ravana will arrive?

I'd also point out that the further away a fighter is, the more likely bombs are to be to destroyed en-route by the Shivan fighters or flak.  If long range bombardment was effective, we'd have artillery ships instead of bombers.


They will be on patrol.

Patrol where?  In exactly the right position and with exactly the right weaponry to engage a Ravana? what about other threats - how can they defend against them with a specialised loadout?

Chances are if they are on patrol they will be near different parts of the ship. They wouldn't all be in the same place.

So in other words there's even less chance of a substantial attack force intercepting the Ravana quickly?

If there are 4 Perseuses then each one can just target a main beam (Lred/Sred) and then the Ravana will be screwed.

Assuming a 100% hitrate with 2 missiles, under constant AAAf, flak, and enemy fighter attack, and having to maneuver into position (which, incidentally, is where the escort fighters will cover most - the ships weak spots and the attack runs to them)?  I doubt it.

ngtm1r has addressed this point.

I don't believe he tested with a) on-scene Shivan escort or b) Shivan bombers targeting the GTVA ships weaponry/engines systems.  also I'd consider the effectiveness of the Ravana in described main campaign briefings as a more reliable guide, because it's volitions canon description of the Ravanas' combat effectiveness.

 

Offline NGTM-1R

  • I reject your reality and substitute my own
  • 213
  • Syndral Active. 0410.
I tested it with on-scene escort, though I admit the bombers launched from the Ravana about five seconds after it dropped out of subspace.

They did eventually kill my Orion by sheer weight of numbers, but the Ravana died from the Orion's ready group bomber wing too. Admittedly the GTVA can't afford to trade ships with the Shivans on a one-for-one basis, though.
"Load sabot. Target Zaku, direct front!"

A Feddie Story

 

Online Kie99

  • 211
Quote's make it difficult to um.. quote

So they'll be flying far escort? What happens if something jumps in close to the destroyer? Or simply jumps in at the opposite side, in such a way as the fighters need to fly several km just to get in range? Or are you suggesting they will somehow guess exactly where the Ravana will arrive?

They would be circling the destroyer, they wouldn't be all bunched up together

I'd also point out that the further away a fighter is, the more likely bombs are to be to destroyed en-route by the Shivan fighters or flak. If long range bombardment was effective, we'd have artillery ships instead of bombers.

Trebuchets can't be destroyed by Flak

Patrol where? In exactly the right position and with exactly the right weaponry to engage a Ravana? what about other threats - how can they defend against them with a specialised loadout?

Patrol around the destroyer.  A Trebuchet/Tornado loadout is effective against any threat to a Destroyer below Juggernaut size, in which case the destroyer is F***ed anyway.

Assuming a 100% hitrate with 2 missiles, under constant AAAf, flak, and enemy fighter attack, and having to maneuver into position (which, incidentally, is where the escort fighters will cover most - the ships weak spots and the attack runs to them)? I doubt it.

Again trebuchet's are unkillable by Flak/AAAf/fighters

I don't believe he tested with a) on-scene Shivan escort or b) Shivan bombers targeting the GTVA ships weaponry/engines systems. also I'd consider the effectiveness of the Ravana in described main campaign briefings as a more reliable guide, because it's volitions canon description of the Ravanas' combat effectiveness.

The Ravana can be very quickly dispatched by a couple of fighters, which can then destroy the bombers, or get destroyed by the escort, but that would happen anyway.

So in other words there's even less chance of a substantial attack force intercepting the Ravana quickly?

There is a 6 second fire-wait time for the Trebuchet so 1 Perseus fires 2 Trebs.  One beam down, waits at most 6 seconds (because another fighter could shoot down the other turret) and then the Ravana is screwed.
"You shot me in the bollocks, Tim"
"Like I said, no hard feelings"

 

Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
  • 213
Quote's make it difficult to um.. quote
Not 'alf :D

They would be circling the destroyer, they wouldn't be all bunched up together
So it would take longer to regroup and bring an organized force to the enemy ship; and individual ships or wings are an easier target for defense turrets / escort fighters than a group are (simple numbers)

Trebuchets can't be destroyed by Flak
Sure?  They have a bomber+ tag, whatever that means

Patrol around the destroyer.  A Trebuchet/Tornado loadout is effective against any threat to a Destroyer below Juggernaut size, in which case the destroyer is F***ed anyway.
what about fighters systematically disarming and disabling the destroyer?  Trebuchets aren't particularly effective close in, and the Tornado isn't 100% effective as the bomblets can be diverted

Again trebuchet's are unkillable by Flak/AAAf/fighters
Fighters/bombers aren't

The Ravana can be very quickly dispatched by a couple of fighters, which can then destroy the bombers, or get destroyed by the escort, but that would happen anyway.
And the bombers can just as quickly cripple the destroyers engines, weapons or fighterbay, for example.


There is a 6 second fire-wait time for the Trebuchet so 1 Perseus fires 2 Trebs.  One beam down, waits at most 6 seconds (because another fighter could shoot down the other turret) and then the Ravana is screwed.

If it hits the turret with both.  And that's a big if.  And I have a feeling it'd be a 12 second wait on double-fire, but I can't be arsed checking



Incidentally, the 2 groups of turrets on the Ravana are something like 2km apart (front and back spikes).  The positioning of them means that hits really need to occur directly from the front/side to get a proper impact (same as the Sathana; you need to hit a particular part for 100% effectiveness).

This means you need to approach from the front, or at an angle to the front. This means flying either straight into the front, or from the side.   The side presents something like 4(+) turrets able to fire on the incoming ship, including at least one Flak turret.  The front is somewhat easier for turrets 01 & 2 (provided they aren't firing), but the back pair requires flying across the length of the ship, which again is about 4+ turrets.

All of which - plus the likelihood of hostile fighters - makes it somewhat harder to take down those turrets than a simple '6 second job' (which would take longer than 6 seconds anyway as you have to actually fly to the target)

 

Online Kie99

  • 211
Quote's make it difficult to um.. quote
Not 'alf :D


They would be circling the destroyer, they wouldn't be all bunched up together
So it would take longer to regroup and bring an organized force to the enemy ship; and individual ships or wings are an easier target for defense turrets / escort fighters than a group are (simple numbers)

If one ship gets off a couple of Trebs at a turret and then gets destroyed then one more needs to do the same, then the Ravana has only 2 SRed (Cain beams) To shoot with,

Trebuchets can't be destroyed by Flak
Sure?  They have a bomber+ tag, whatever that means

Not sure what Bomber+ Flag does but you definately can't target Trebuchets, its what makes the first misson of WarZone such a B***H.

Patrol around the destroyer.  A Trebuchet/Tornado loadout is effective against any threat to a Destroyer below Juggernaut size, in which case the destroyer is F***ed anyway.
what about fighters systematically disarming and disabling the destroyer?  Trebuchets aren't particularly effective close in, and the Tornado isn't 100% effective as the bomblets can be diverted

I think you may be getting Tornadoes mixed up with Hornets.  Tornadoes are excellent at hunting down their targets.

Again trebuchet's are unkillable by Flak/AAAf/fighters
Fighters/bombers aren't

How long will it take a perseus to get a couple of Trebuchet's off?

The Ravana can be very quickly dispatched by a couple of fighters, which can then destroy the bombers, or get destroyed by the escort, but that would happen anyway.
And the bombers can just as quickly cripple the destroyers engines, weapons or fighterbay, for example.

2 Perseuses to incapapcitate the Ravana from long range, which will take only a few seconds, and the other 2 to attack the bombers.

There is a 6 second fire-wait time for the Trebuchet so 1 Perseus fires 2 Trebs.  One beam down, waits at most 6 seconds (because another fighter could shoot down the other turret) and then the Ravana is screwed.

If it hits the turret with both.  And that's a big if.  And I have a feeling it'd be a 12 second wait on double-fire, but I can't be arsed checking


Trebuchet's are excellent at hitting their targets given a decent angle which circling fighterscould undoubtedly get


Incidentally, the 2 groups of turrets on the Ravana are something like 2km apart (front and back spikes).  The positioning of them means that hits really need to occur directly from the front/side to get a proper impact (same as the Sathana; you need to hit a particular part for 100% effectiveness).



This means you need to approach from the front, or at an angle to the front. This means flying either straight into the front, or from the side.   The side presents something like 4(+) turrets able to fire on the incoming ship, including at least one Flak turret.  The front is somewhat easier for turrets 01 & 2 (provided they aren't firing), but the back pair requires flying across the length of the ship, which again is about 4+ turrets.

Which patrolling fighters would have a good chance of getting, and SReds don't really pose much of a threat against Terran destroyers

All of which - plus the likelihood of hostile fighters - makes it somewhat harder to take down those turrets than a simple '6 second job' (which would take longer than 6 seconds anyway as you have to actually fly to the target)


Well the Trebuchet does have a good range (Longer than a destroyer+Over Half the Ravana's range so the Flying to target bit wouldn't take that long; even if the Perseus was at one end of a destroyer and the Ravana was 3000 Metres away from the other end then the Perseus could still get a shot on the Beams.
"You shot me in the bollocks, Tim"
"Like I said, no hard feelings"