[Knight Templar]

The Pope was teh pwn.

[Clave]

Everyone dies...

[mitac]

Originally posted by Ghost
The Cardinals elect a new pope, and when they pick him, they change a fire to burn from black to white smoke.

The voting procedure itself is quite interesting. There are no official "candidates". The "delegates" - i.e. selected cardinals - each write the name of whoever they want to give their votes on a piece of paper. In case no majority is reached, the papers are collected and burnt with a small amount of pitch, thus making the smoke turn black. The procedure repeats until a 'new' pope is found - then they leave the pitch away, resulting in ordinary light grey smoke, thus signalling the election of a new pope.

[vyper]

All those people who now have HIV & AIDS after he told 'em not to use condoms appreciate your effort IceFire.

[aldo_14]

I find it somewhat annoying that a dead person becomes unimpeachable, to be honest.  For me that's the time to best question, when you have the 'whole' story.

I mean.... the first post is effectively 'The Pope is Dead - discuss'... and some people, whilst not wishing to offend Catholics or others, simply don't hold the Pope in particularly special regard.

[Hunne]

....yeah...he is dead...finally
but he could have waited another hour or so, so i would have been able to watch that saturday night movie to full lenght....anyway religion is a thing for fanatics...some desperately want to die others want to live forever...."you pray to another god? than you shall die"....you get the point i guess...always a good excuse to wage war (e.g. G.W.B. aka TheChosenOne *lol*)
stop praying, start working...there´s enough to do on this planet

[Andreas]

Originally posted by kode
thing is, I'm lutheran, and my country has been for 500 years. As such, we have nothing to do with the pope and therefore I couldn't care less about him.

Same here.

Not that I had anything against him, but can't say that he was a saint either, just because he is dead now.
And what did Kode post originally, since it got deleted?

[kode]

Originally posted by Ai No Koriida

Same here.

Not that I had anything against him, but can't say that he was a saint either, just because he is dead now.
And what did Kode post originally, since it got deleted?

I made a reference to a recent event. I don't know exactly how much I can say about it, since icefire seems to be in a pissy mood.

[Axel Wers]

Rest In Peace John Paul II

[TrashMan]

The greatest man in the world has passed away...

Alltough his death is a immesurable loss to the humanity, in theory, people should not weap for him. He is in a better place and will continue to watch after us.

[TrashMan]

Originally posted by Ai No Koriida

Same here.

Not that I had anything against him, but can't say that he was a saint either, just because he is dead now.
And what did Kode post originally, since it got deleted?

He prolly will be proclaimed a saint by the next Pope.
He has done more good than you'll ever know....

It's funny how people allways focus on condoms, abortion and euthanaisa, as if they are the only isseues there are.

I for one mostly agree with him (except for eutanasia), but I respect his decisions and understand where they come from.

[Ford Prefect]

It doesn't make much sense to zero in on the pope regarding issues of birth control and abortion. Those things are against Catholic dogma, so one would sort of expect the pope to oppose them. The cardinals would never in a million years choose a pope who would chip away at their monolithic traditions, (however stale they may be.)

[Solatar]

Ya' know...they did change some of their policies...*cough* Vatican II. That included admitting Jesus wasn't the only way to get to heaven among many other various changes (they made things not as stale/boring..I've been to high masses or whatever that still run like pre-Vatican II, boring as hell (ironically)).

The thing with birth control being outlawed stems from some verse in the Bible (...I ain't gonna quote it, 'cause I'm not THAT religious). Something about a guy pulling out before he blew and spilling his "seed" upon the ground. God proceeded to smite him or whatever He does when He's pissed...

The reason it shouldn't be a problem to Catholics (if you're not Catholic...why listen to him on that?) is because Catholics aren't allowed to have sex outside of marriage...now...if everyone only has sex with one partner, then it's impossible to get AIDs...So there is a bit of logic in it.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Ford Prefect
It doesn't make much sense to zero in on the pope regarding issues of birth control and abortion. Those things are against Catholic dogma, so one would sort of expect the pope to oppose them. The cardinals would never in a million years choose a pope who would chip away at their monolithic traditions, (however stale they may be.)

I know... it's not so much the policy over contraception that I oppose - I understand their position & why they have it - it's the lying (about the effectiveness of condoms) that they did to support it that IMO is unconscionable.  That, I realise, is a policy decision of the Vatican as a whole, but it still sours my opinion of their supreme 'leader' somewhat.

[Andreas]

Originally posted by TrashMan
He has done more good than you'll ever know....

Well, thank you.

Originally posted by TrashMan
It's funny how people allways focus on condoms, abortion and euthanaisa, as if they are the only isseues there are.

And they aren't important? You don't consider condoms to be important at all to prevent the spread of STDs?

And this of course:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_John_Paul_II#Teachings
"A controversial point of the John Paul II papacy was his October 1, 1986 letter to all bishops that described homosexuality as a "tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil" and "an objective disorder." His book Memory and Identity claimed that the push for homosexual marriage may be part of a "new ideology of evil ... which attempts to pit human rights against the family and against man.""

[TrashMan]

Condoms aren't 100% effective, everyone knows that.

There are countries where peeople breed like rabbits, alltough they allready have 11 children they cannot feed.
So I say, yes, in cases like that apstinency (or an operation) is the way to go.
Sadly, most people lack the willpower or common sense to do so.

And as far as homosexuality goes...scientificly, it is surrently most likely it is a gene disorder. I'm strongly opposed to homosexual marriage in the church.

He did very, very much good. On the issues you described the choices he made are not evil, nor can be called that.

[vyper]

Can I call him ^^^ ignorant, uninformed and a pain in the arse without being a problem for this thread?

Good. Consider it done.


I meant Trashman, this fricking time delay kicked in again

[StratComm]

Originally posted by TrashMan
Condoms aren't 100% effective, everyone knows that.

There are countries where peeople breed like rabbits, alltough they allready have 11 children they cannot feed.
So I say, yes, in cases like that apstinency (or an operation) is the way to go.
Sadly, most people lack the willpower or common sense to do so.

This is probably the only point over which I totally disagree with the church.  Condoms may not be 100% effective, but even 1% effective would be better than not doing anything at all.  Never mind that they are on the order of 99% effective, so long as they are used properly.  The underlying issue I can see, but there's a fine line between teaching about something and actually doing something about it.  Operations are drastic, and don't do much about the spread of disease.  Never mind that some cultures are inherently opposed to the loss of fertility, no matter what good it may do in the long run.  Teaching abstinance and providing an operation are fine, but there's absolutely no reason not to make a proven reliable short term solution (condoms) available.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by TrashMan
Condoms aren't 100% effective, everyone knows that.

There are countries where peeople breed like rabbits, alltough they allready have 11 children they cannot feed.
So I say, yes, in cases like that apstinency (or an operation) is the way to go.
Sadly, most people lack the willpower or common sense to do so.

And as far as homosexuality goes...scientificly, it is surrently most likely it is a gene disorder. I'm strongly opposed to homosexual marriage in the church.

He did very, very much good. On the issues you described the choices he made are not evil, nor can be called that.

I don't wish to get involved in an argument justnow, so I'll just say this & no more;
- the effectiveness of condoms is not the key issue (AFAIK it's around 99.9%), the fact that the Vatican lied about it is
- you can't just revoke thousands of years of instinctual behaviour; abstinance is not and probably never will be a solution on its own
- blaming the people for the conditions they live in and using emotive terms such as 'breed like rabbits' (reducing them to animal status) is IMHO the wrong way to address a problem, as it seeks to abdicate responsibility rather than look at solutions.
- your opinion of homosexualty is just that; an opinion.  Whilst I believe the Catholic church should be free to have that opinion, IMO using terms such as 'evil' is only inciting hate; to me that's not a very tolerant or dare-I-say Christian attitude.  The issue of homosexual marriage goes beyond the issue of church weddings - as private institutions IMO they should be free to deny access or service - and into the issue of equal rights vis-a-vis heterosexual marriage or even the 'life partner' status accorded to unmarried, stable couples.

Having disagreed with so many of the Catholic churches policies in these areas and others, I can't hold the Pope in the unimpeachable, unquestionable position which dead 'celebrities' in general and him in particular seem to now be placed in.  IMO, he has done 'bad', and history should remember and analyze that alongside the good..

[TrashMan]

Originally posted by vyper
Can I call him ^^^ ignorant, uninformed and a pain in the arse without being a problem for this thread?

Good. Consider it done.

Call me whatever you want, I don't give a damn what an idiot thinks of me:D