Author Topic: oh the evil!!  (Read 2622 times)

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Offline Flipside

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LOL Most Macs I've seen run more smoothly than their PC counterparts running at twice the speed. I do actually quite like them, but I'm an old PC Hack now, I'd use a Mac, but a PC would be my computer of choice, simply because I am used to them. :)

 

Offline Scuddie

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I think it's time to set somebody straight.
Quote
Originally posted by Clave
:D :yes:

I'm also sick of people saying the same old things...

1.  'Macs are expensive' - Yes they cost more but in terms of the overall price you pay during the life of your computer, they actually work out cheaper.
You pay for appearance, not hardware.  The name and image means more than what's on the inside.  And this 5 year old machine I paid $600 for works about as well as my friend's 5 year old G4 that he paid $1400 for.

2.  'There are no Mac games' - Wrong again! there are thousands of games - Doom 3, WoW, CoD, Quake 3, Sims, blah, blah, it may be nowhere near the number on PC, but usually only the best get ported/cross-platformed anyway, and they are usually bug-free...
I don't think you know the whole picture.  The best games that are ported over are the ones who can afford to hire additional teams.  Most games not designed specificly for the mac are just overhyped, not the best.

2a.  I have an XBox and PS2 as well, so :p

3.  Viruses - I don't even have antivirus software installed....
4.  Spyware - what's that?
It doesn't have anything to do with MacOS being 'superior'.  Simply put, if you were out to get people, would you go with the big crowd or the little one?  Nature of the beast on that one.  If Windows and MacOS were reversed in popularity, it would be MacOS that would have all the viruses and spyware.

5.  Windows Service Packs - don't make me laugh, OSX gets regular updates which pretty much work, without the pages of 'this may cause problems' crap that you get from MS.  And when there is a major upgrade - like the upcoming 10.4 'Tiger' you pay a reasonable amount for it....
Windows users don't pay for service packs.

6.  Working - Less downtime = more productivity, that's a simple message for business.
Try again, pal.  Unless you are talking about an 8 year old OS (win98), that statement is entirely false.  There is something called NTOS, you might want to look into it.  I constantly abuse Win2k and XP, neither has EVER crashed on me, except in one condition where a power surge killed my memory.  As far as how things are now, the stability of MacOS over Windows is very slight.

7.  'Macs are not compatible' Another bit bull****, I use Office - 100% compatible with your version, Photoshop - again 100% Vectorworks (CAD) dual versions on the install CD, Firefox and IE browsers, GoLive, Illustrator, Imageready, Acrobat, Lightwave, Freehand, Quicktime and Windows Media Player, as well as iRC, ICQ, YIM, and other misc crap.
Good for you.  You have stated that office applications have been ported over to MacOS.  If it weren't that way in the beginning...  Oh wait...  it WAS that way in the beginning.  Nothing special here.

True you can't directly use Win programs without an emulator, but there's nothing I really need to do that would require that...

8.  Keyboard shortcuts? wtf? there are more shortcuts and cool tricks with the keyboard than you can possibly remember.
Aye, and most of them would be considered unneccessary.  I find it easier to right click than to hold a combination of three seperate buttons in order to get some info on a file.

9.  Features - The Dock, it's just so much more than a program launcher, you can drag anything down there, programs, games, files, films, your whole HD and instantly retrieve it.  If for instance you are playing a movie and minimise it to The Dock, you will see a tiny window of the movie playing down there which enlarges as the mouse moves over it.  Titles are also retained, I can minimise this window and moving the mouse along pops up the title 'Hard Light Productions Forums - Hard Light' (In slick shaded text) In all, it's about the most easy and intuitive interface ever designed... and it can be placed left, right, or bottom of the screen. :p
Are you familiar with the QuickLaunch bar?  It does the same exact thing.  Nothing special here.

Other cool stuff? there's loads, but the one I use most at work is the ability to create PDF files from anything it's soo easy - click 'Print' click 'Save as PDF' and you're done.  That feature alone has probably saved thousands where I work...
This is an APPLICATION feature, not a MacOS feature.  Having Acrobat installed doesn't make one platform better than the other.  Again, you fail.

10.  Stability - It's very rare to have an issue, but the System will protect itself, say for instance you have a large Photoshop file which causes Photoshop itself to crash or hang, you can 'Force Quit' which shuts down Photoshop and leaves everything else unaffected, and you go on working with no problem.
See above.  We are not living in 1997 anymore.  Also, Force quit doesn't always work.  Matter of fact, force quit screwed the system up the majority of the time whenever I used it.  And what happens when the system locks up?  You get an error -2 and an image of a bomb.  WOW!!  Very descriptive of the problem!  I wish I would have thought of that if I ever made an OS.  Why give details of what module failed when you can display A PICTURE OF A FRIKKIN BOMB instead?  It's brilliant!  I'm taking that idea to the bank!

11. Hardware - Macs use standard SATA drives, standard RAM, pretty much any USB device you can name, most printers, you can get gamepads, joysticks, tablets, external drives etc. etc. oh and iPods :D also the build quality of he case is the best, I mean solid aluminium panels, clean design internally (no cable clutter) and there are USB + Firewire ports on the front! who'd have thought?
Good for that then.  It's too bad your argument is entirely invalid for pre-G5 Tower.  And as for the case, many other case manufacturers had USB in the front around the same time as an iMac G4.

Anyhoo, I starting to get too evangilistic now, so I'll STFU, but leave you with this; it's getting near to my 19th straight year of using Macs, and one hardware failure, yes one...
I bet you would have had alot more than one hardware failure if you were abusing the hell out of it like PC users do.  Oh.  And hardware failure is to be expected if an environmental issue was present.  But not otherwise.  To say you've only had one failure is obvious.  I haven't had any, save one due to power surge.
Well, thank you for your list of invalid arguments regarding supremacy of Mac to PC.  They were certainly amusing.  Forgive me if I sound rude, but I absolutely hate it when people use the opponent's 10 year old technology and programming, and compare it to your preferred current technology and come to the conclusion that it is so much better.  It is both hypocritical and cowardly.
Bunny stole my signature :(.

Sorry boobies.

 

Offline WMCoolmon

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Scuddie: OS X is surprisingly more stable that Mac OS 9 (Well, 8, 9 was a joke.). Judging by your description of the force-quit thing, I'd say you're talking about pre-OS X versions of MacOS.

Honestly, I wish MS would  put force-quit in Windows. It's a pain in the ass to have to open up task manager, which may not be possible as your app is in the middle of crashing and eating up all your memory in an infinite loop.
-C

 

Offline Kamikaze

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Quote
It doesn't have anything to do with MacOS being 'superior'. Simply put, if you were out to get people, would you go with the big crowd or the little one? Nature of the beast on that one. If Windows and MacOS were reversed in popularity, it would be MacOS that would have all the viruses and spyware.


Not necessarily true. Apache is far more popular as an http server than IIS is, guess which has more exploits? I will also bet you that far more mac users don't use their admin accounts regularly. On Windows I have experienced cases where Microsoft software would not work without admin rights when it was totally unnecessary.

Quote
This is an APPLICATION feature, not a MacOS feature. Having Acrobat installed doesn't make one platform better than the other. Again, you fail.


Untrue. This is an API feature. Developing applications using Apple's APIs give programs a ton of features automatically.

Quote
See above. We are not living in 1997 anymore. Also, Force quit doesn't always work. Matter of fact, force quit screwed the system up the majority of the time whenever I used it. And what happens when the system locks up? You get an error -2 and an image of a bomb. WOW!! Very descriptive of the problem! I wish I would have thought of that if I ever made an OS. Why give details of what module failed when you can display A PICTURE OF A FRIKKIN BOMB instead? It's brilliant! I'm taking that idea to the bank!


Yeah, automatically restarting is much more informative (WinXP).
Science alone of all the subjects contains within itself the lesson of the danger of belief in the infallibility of the greatest teachers in the preceding generation . . .Learn from science that you must doubt the experts. As a matter of fact, I can also define science another way: Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts. - Richard Feynman

 

Offline Scuddie

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Quote
Originally posted by Kamikaze
Not necessarily true. Apache is far more popular as an http server than IIS is, guess which has more exploits? I will also bet you that far more mac users don't use their admin accounts regularly. On Windows I have experienced cases where Microsoft software would not work without admin rights when it was totally unnecessary.
As for apache and IIS, fair enough.  However, user error (or permissions error in this case) is no yard-stick for anything.

Untrue. This is an API feature. Developing applications using Apple's APIs give programs a ton of features automatically.
You are only somewhat correct.  The API is used, yes, but the API is only pointing to the functioning of the application in question.  The same thing is done on Windows.  Except in Windows' case, it's called a wrapper instead of an alias or pointer.

Yeah, automatically restarting is much more informative (WinXP).
Again, user error (or preference) is no yard-stick for anything.  It's not my fault that some people like to force reboot instead of BSOD, which was default on my XP installation.
Bunny stole my signature :(.

Sorry boobies.

 

Offline Genoism

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i hate macs, one day i will learn to use one properly..till then i will hate them because its such a pain for me to learn another OS :p
After much debate I decided quotes are a waste of time.

 

Offline Ransom

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Quote
Originally posted by Scuddie
Aye, and most of them would be considered unneccessary. I find it easier to right click than to hold a combination of three seperate buttons in order to get some info on a file.

This is one thing that really annoys me. Macs have supported two/three/million button mice since the first version of OS X. Apple just refuses to make their own mouse that features more than one button cause they're all crazy Marsh pathfinder hermits.

 

Offline Kamikaze

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Quote
Originally posted by Ransom Arceihn

 Apple just refuses to make their own mouse that features more than one button cause they're all crazy Marsh pathfinder hermits.


Well, maybe. http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=05/03/16/135210
Science alone of all the subjects contains within itself the lesson of the danger of belief in the infallibility of the greatest teachers in the preceding generation . . .Learn from science that you must doubt the experts. As a matter of fact, I can also define science another way: Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts. - Richard Feynman

 

Offline Grey Wolf

I favor Windows, as I'm used to it and the fact that I'm prejudiced in favor of AMD chips.
You see things; and you say "Why?" But I dream things that never were; and I say "Why not?" -George Bernard Shaw

 

Offline StratComm

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I really hate to follow a trend like this, but from personal experience I need to debunk a number of these statements.
Quote
Originally posted by Clave
:D :yes:

I'm also sick of people saying the same old things...

1.  'Macs are expensive' - Yes they cost more but in terms of the overall price you pay during the life of your computer, they actually work out cheaper.
That's a marketing ploy, nothing more.  That's like saying the three-year warrenty from Dell is worth the cost.  It's not; if you're competent inside a case then you only pay half as much in the event anything fails within the warrenty period anyway.  Macs are more expensive, and their hardware has proven to be no more reliable.

2.  'There are no Mac games' - Wrong again! there are thousands of games - Doom 3, WoW, CoD, Quake 3, Sims, blah, blah, it may be nowhere near the number on PC, but usually only the best get ported/cross-platformed anyway, and they are usually bug-free...
I will admit that my experience with Mac games is limited and somewhat out of date, but every game I ever played on a Mac had issues of one kind or another that made them painfully unstable or downright unplayable.  Though as I said, it has been a number of years since I was using a Mac for that purpose.

2a.  I have an XBox and PS2 as well, so :p

3.  Viruses - I don't even have antivirus software installed....
Probably not the best idea, actually.  Macs are hardly invulnerable to viruses, and though while they are rare there are plenty of exploits that can be taken advantage of on a Mac.  Granted, it's not the gaping hole of vulnerability that Windows can be, but then not much is.

4.  Spyware - what's that?

5.  Windows Service Packs - don't make me laugh, OSX gets regular updates which pretty much work, without the pages of 'this may cause problems' crap that you get from MS.  And when there is a major upgrade - like the upcoming 10.4 'Tiger' you pay a reasonable amount for it....
You're kidding, right?  Other than SP2, which is the exception, not the rule when it comes to MS service packs, I've never had a service pack break anything.  I have seen Apple Updates cause other programs to stop working correctly.  I've actually seen Apple updates completely bork the system.  It's not worse than the Windows equivalent, I just don't think it's any better.

6.  Working - Less downtime = more productivity, that's a simple message for business.

7.  'Macs are not compatible' Another bit bull****, I use Office - 100% compatible with your version, Photoshop - again 100% Vectorworks (CAD) dual versions on the install CD, Firefox and IE browsers, GoLive, Illustrator, Imageready, Acrobat, Lightwave, Freehand, Quicktime and Windows Media Player, as well as iRC, ICQ, YIM, and other misc crap.
IE Mac blows... so much that Microsoft discontinued development for it.  Plus Macs hace a bit of a niche in the imaging industry, so naturally there are going to be more programs available on that platform to do that.  But if you need a small app to perform some random one-off functionality, the odds of you being able to find something that isn't going to cost you an arm and a leg for probably a one-time use is slim.

But what most of us have said is "Macs are not backwards compatable", meaning there have been programs that simply would not work in a newer version of the MacOS.  Sort of like pure DOS apps in WinNT/2k/XP, except only removed from the OS release by a year or so.  This has gotten better post-OSX, but the whole existance of "classic mode" is a bit of a poster child for non-backwards comatability.


True you can't directly use Win programs without an emulator, but there's nothing I really need to do that would require that...

8.  Keyboard shortcuts? wtf? there are more shortcuts and cool tricks with the keyboard than you can possibly remember.
And therein lies a problem.  Keyboard commands should be functional first and cool second - Macs tend to put the "cool" shortcut keys on the easier mappings, and something like "get info" on something more obscure.  Too much of a good thing can be a bad thing sometimes.

The lack of keyboard shortcuts though includes things like tab not automatically selecting the next push-box when you press it from the last text tab.  I know you can turn it on, but I can't do that at 90% of the Macs I sit down to on a semi-regular basis.  I use the keyboard a lot, and this one problem has driven me up walls.


9.  Features - The Dock, it's just so much more than a program launcher, you can drag anything down there, programs, games, files, films, your whole HD and instantly retrieve it.  If for instance you are playing a movie and minimise it to The Dock, you will see a tiny window of the movie playing down there which enlarges as the mouse moves over it.  Titles are also retained, I can minimise this window and moving the mouse along pops up the title 'Hard Light Productions Forums - Hard Light' (In slick shaded text) In all, it's about the most easy and intuitive interface ever designed... and it can be placed left, right, or bottom of the screen. :p
And I have little boxes with the name of the current app in them so that I don't have to drag the mouse over each one.

Other cool stuff? there's loads, but the one I use most at work is the ability to create PDF files from anything it's soo easy - click 'Print' click 'Save as PDF' and you're done.  That feature alone has probably saved thousands where I work..

10.  Stability - It's very rare to have an issue, but the System will protect itself, say for instance you have a large Photoshop file which causes Photoshop itself to crash or hang, you can 'Force Quit' which shuts down Photoshop and leaves everything else unaffected, and you go on working with no problem.
This is a bit of a gripe for me.  Since the days of Windows2k, I have seen more Mac BSODs than PC (yes I know it's not actually blue on a Mac.  It's the bomb on OS9 and with certain errors on 10, or the transparent screen with "the machine needs to shut down" printed on it.  Who thought that letting you see your work sitting there without letting you get back to it or save it was a good idea?  What am I going to do?  Take a picture?!?).  And I work with far more PCs than Macs.  I should also note that the Macs in my school's clusters are the most crash-prone systems in the history of graphical OS user interfaces.  If you use one for anything over the network for more than 3 minutes, you are guaranteed to get a complete system failure.  I don't blame Apple for this one because our OIT department seems incompetent most of the time, but the point still stands.

11. Hardware - Macs use standard SATA drives, standard RAM, pretty much any USB device you can name, most printers, you can get gamepads, joysticks, tablets, external drives etc. etc. oh and iPods :D also the build quality of he case is the best, I mean solid aluminium panels, clean design internally (no cable clutter) and there are USB + Firewire ports on the front! who'd have thought?
:wakka:
You're telling me that having the hard drive cables PERMANENTLY INTEGRATED INTO THE CASE is the mark of superior design?  Especially since the case is a disposible item (it's the biggest fricking thing on the entire computer.  Why?  But it is) that the apple techs won't even touch if there's something wrong with it.  So that means that if something ever happens to that SATA cable, you're buying a new case (or apple is, if it's being covered by warrenty).  Tell me that makes sense.  Or that if you ever need to change the power button - just the button, not the motherboard circuit that it controls - you have to completely disassemble the entire system (processers, disks, PSU, motherboard) just to get to the little screw holding it in place?  The case looks cool, but that's image only.


Anyhoo, I starting to get too evangilistic now, so I'll STFU, but leave you with this; it's getting near to my 19th straight year of using Macs, and one hardware failure, yes one...
« Last Edit: April 14, 2005, 09:32:59 pm by 570 »
who needs a signature? ;)
It's not much of an excuse for a website, but my stuff can be found here

"Holding the last thread on a page comes with an inherent danger, especially when you are edit-happy with your posts.  For you can easily continue editing in points without ever noticing that someone else could have refuted them." ~Me, on my posting behavior

Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

 

Offline Taristin

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Change your font colour, f00.
Freelance Modeler | Amateur Artist

 

Offline StratComm

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It's light blue.  Why doesn't it show up? :wtf:

EDIT: Nevermind.  Fixed.
who needs a signature? ;)
It's not much of an excuse for a website, but my stuff can be found here

"Holding the last thread on a page comes with an inherent danger, especially when you are edit-happy with your posts.  For you can easily continue editing in points without ever noticing that someone else could have refuted them." ~Me, on my posting behavior

Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

 

Offline Nix

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The experience I've had with an older G4 which was a hand-me-down from some graphics company that used Mac's has been interesting.  Since I know next to nothing about the mac stuff, and I'm nearly A+ certified on the PC side, I thought it would be easy to install a new hard drive, cdrom and upgrade the machine to Mac OS X.  Well...  it wasnt.  To put a long story short, I had to reformat the hard drive upon setting up 10 (I refuse to call it X, due to some other GUI I have much more respect for...).
It has been a stable install, but there will be random times the computer will crash at random for no apparent reason.  It'll even crash just sitting there, crash so hard you'll see the "BSD-ish" shell in the background, cutting through all the shiny, floofiness.  

To sum it up, it's like the video called "crash different".
"I'm not using a mac as much as I'm sharing the Mac Experience.  If I can get some work done while the Mac is willing... So much the better."

 

Offline Dark RevenantX

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Windows was made by a company-f*cking butthole, seeking to own all of computer marketing.
Apple was made by a respectable buisnessman, seeking to make computer users happier.

  

Offline Kamikaze

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Quote
Originally posted by Dark RevenantX
Windows was made by a company-f*cking butthole, seeking to own all of computer marketing.
Apple was made by a respectable buisnessman, seeking to make computer users happier.


That's taking dogma a bit far. Both Apple and Microsoft use dirty tactics.
Science alone of all the subjects contains within itself the lesson of the danger of belief in the infallibility of the greatest teachers in the preceding generation . . .Learn from science that you must doubt the experts. As a matter of fact, I can also define science another way: Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts. - Richard Feynman

 

Offline Singh

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crap. First i wanted to mention that my uncle has an evil Mac and then it turned into a flame war. Well, to be expected I guess...pity i didnt see it sooner :p

Still, re-learing from scratch how to use my uncle's mac is going to be HELL. I'd rather just stay at home and use Win2k. At least there i can use FS2open.
"Blessed be the FREDder that knows his sexps."
"Cursed be the FREDder that trusts FRED2_Open."
Dreamed of much, accomplished little. :(

 

Offline Ace

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What you do Singh is format the hard drive and install Linux on it :) While Linux may not be Windows, it will work with the Mac hardware... and isn't Mac.

Then hook up a multi-button mouse to it ;)

---

Anyway, am I the only one distrubed when seeing Mac ads which say:
"From the makers of the iPod: The Macintosh Computer!"

It's like they refuse to admit that they've actually made computers before... but now all of the sudden they're this tiny fashionable electronics company gone successful that's moving into computers.
Ace
Self-plagiarism is style.
-Alfred Hitchcock

 

Offline aldo_14

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Quote
Originally posted by Ace

Anyway, am I the only one distrubed when seeing Mac ads which say:
"From the makers of the iPod: The Macintosh Computer!"


I'm actually surprised you're not joking.......

 

Offline Clave

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Moving along before this gets locked...

1. 'Macs are expensive' - Yes they cost more but in terms of the overall price you pay during the life of your computer, they actually work out cheaper.

That's a marketing ploy, nothing more. That's like saying the three-year warrenty from Dell is worth the cost. It's not; if you're competent inside a case then you only pay half as much in the event anything fails within the warrenty period anyway. Macs are more expensive, and their hardware has proven to be no more reliable.

They are more reliable - in my experience...

2. 'There are no Mac games' - Wrong again! there are thousands of games - Doom 3, WoW, CoD, Quake 3, Sims, blah, blah, it may be nowhere near the number on PC, but usually only the best get ported/cross-platformed anyway, and they are usually bug-free...

I will admit that my experience with Mac games is limited and somewhat out of date, but every game I ever played on a Mac had issues of one kind or another that made them painfully unstable or downright unplayable. Though as I said, it has been a number of years since I was using a Mac for that purpose.

They work, basically you have the same cards - Radeon 9800 etc as the PC version

2a. I have an XBox and PS2 as well, so

3. Viruses - I don't even have antivirus software installed....

Probably not the best idea, actually. Macs are hardly invulnerable to viruses, and though while they are rare there are plenty of exploits that can be taken advantage of on a Mac. Granted, it's not the gaping hole of vulnerability that Windows can be, but then not much is.

People don't write viruses for OSX, it's hard to make them work inside the System

4. Spyware - what's that?

5. Windows Service Packs - don't make me laugh, OSX gets regular updates which pretty much work, without the pages of 'this may cause problems' crap that you get from MS. And when there is a major upgrade - like the upcoming 10.4 'Tiger' you pay a reasonable amount for it....

You're kidding, right? Other than SP2, which is the exception, not the rule when it comes to MS service packs, I've never had a service pack break anything. I have seen Apple Updates cause other programs to stop working correctly. I've actually seen Apple updates completely bork the system. It's not worse than the Windows equivalent, I just don't think it's any better.

SP2 is what I was talking about, and the jump from 4.2.2 to 95, and the jump from 95 to 98, and Win ME - Nothing is perfect, but Apple software changes have been progressive with one exception - OS9 to OSX, simply because that was a totally different OS, not based on the one before.

6. Working - Less downtime = more productivity, that's a simple message for business.


7. 'Macs are not compatible' Another bit bull****, I use Office - 100% compatible with your version, Photoshop - again 100% Vectorworks (CAD) dual versions on the install CD, Firefox and IE browsers, GoLive, Illustrator, Imageready, Acrobat, Lightwave, Freehand, Quicktime and Windows Media Player, as well as iRC, ICQ, YIM, and other misc crap.

IE Mac blows... so much that Microsoft discontinued development for it. Plus Macs hace a bit of a niche in the imaging industry, so naturally there are going to be more programs available on that platform to do that. But if you need a small app to perform some random one-off functionality, the odds of you being able to find something that isn't going to cost you an arm and a leg for probably a one-time use is slim.

But what most of us have said is "Macs are not backwards compatable", meaning there have been programs that simply would not work in a newer version of the MacOS. Sort of like pure DOS apps in WinNT/2k/XP, except only removed from the OS release by a year or so. This has gotten better post-OSX, but the whole existance of "classic mode" is a bit of a poster child for non-backwards comatability.

Maybe so, but there is some virtue in moving forward and having better applications that are OSX Native rather than moaning about old crap that wasn't all that good anyway.

True you can't directly use Win programs without an emulator, but there's nothing I really need to do that would require that...

8. Keyboard shortcuts? wtf? there are more shortcuts and cool tricks with the keyboard than you can possibly remember.


And therein lies a problem. Keyboard commands should be functional first and cool second - Macs tend to put the "cool" shortcut keys on the easier mappings, and something like "get info" on something more obscure. Too much of a good thing can be a bad thing sometimes.

The lack of keyboard shortcuts though includes things like tab not automatically selecting the next push-box when you press it from the last text tab. I know you can turn it on, but I can't do that at 90% of the Macs I sit down to on a semi-regular basis. I use the keyboard a lot, and this one problem has driven me up walls.


*shrug* That's more your problem than a software issue...

9. Features - The Dock, it's just so much more than a program launcher, you can drag anything down there, programs, games, files, films, your whole HD and instantly retrieve it. If for instance you are playing a movie and minimise it to The Dock, you will see a tiny window of the movie playing down there which enlarges as the mouse moves over it. Titles are also retained, I can minimise this window and moving the mouse along pops up the title 'Hard Light Productions Forums - Hard Light' (In slick shaded text) In all, it's about the most easy and intuitive interface ever designed... and it can be placed left, right, or bottom of the screen.
And I have little boxes with the name of the current app in them so that I don't have to drag the mouse over each one.

Other cool stuff? there's loads, but the one I use most at work is the ability to create PDF files from anything it's soo easy - click 'Print' click 'Save as PDF' and you're done. That feature alone has probably saved thousands where I work..

10. Stability - It's very rare to have an issue, but the System will protect itself, say for instance you have a large Photoshop file which causes Photoshop itself to crash or hang, you can 'Force Quit' which shuts down Photoshop and leaves everything else unaffected, and you go on working with no problem.


This is a bit of a gripe for me. Since the days of Windows2k, I have seen more Mac BSODs than PC (yes I know it's not actually blue on a Mac. It's the bomb on OS9 and with certain errors on 10, or the transparent screen with "the machine needs to shut down" printed on it. Who thought that letting you see your work sitting there without letting you get back to it or save it was a good idea? What am I going to do? Take a picture?!?). And I work with far more PCs than Macs. I should also note that the Macs in my school's clusters are the most crash-prone systems in the history of graphical OS user interfaces. If you use one for anything over the network for more than 3 minutes, you are guaranteed to get a complete system failure. I don't blame Apple for this one because our OIT department seems incompetent most of the time, but the point still stands.

11. Hardware - Macs use standard SATA drives, standard RAM, pretty much any USB device you can name, most printers, you can get gamepads, joysticks, tablets, external drives etc. etc. oh and iPods also the build quality of he case is the best, I mean solid aluminium panels, clean design internally (no cable clutter) and there are USB + Firewire ports on the front! who'd have thought?


You're telling me that having the hard drive cables PERMANENTLY INTEGRATED INTO THE CASE is the mark of superior design? Especially since the case is a disposible item (it's the biggest fricking thing on the entire computer. Why? But it is) that the apple techs won't even touch if there's something wrong with it. So that means that if something ever happens to that SATA cable, you're buying a new case (or apple is, if it's being covered by warrenty). Tell me that makes sense. Or that if you ever need to change the power button - just the button, not the motherboard circuit that it controls - you have to completely disassemble the entire system (processers, disks, PSU, motherboard) just to get to the little screw holding it in place? The case looks cool, but that's image only.

The case is NOT disposable! that's the whole point, you are buying something that has been designed, not just thrown together by some junkie in the far east...
Everything is easy to access, repair and replace.  Next chance you get, actually take a look inside a G5, it's quite an eye-opener, it makes all other comps look like crap especially older Macs...

My point about ports on the front and back still stands, it's just a tiny feature that someone has actually put some thought into for a change.
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Offline StratComm

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Quote
Originally posted by Clave
Moving along before this gets locked...
You're telling me that having the hard drive cables PERMANENTLY INTEGRATED INTO THE CASE is the mark of superior design? Especially since the case is a disposible item (it's the biggest fricking thing on the entire computer. Why? But it is) that the apple techs won't even touch if there's something wrong with it. So that means that if something ever happens to that SATA cable, you're buying a new case (or apple is, if it's being covered by warrenty). Tell me that makes sense. Or that if you ever need to change the power button - just the button, not the motherboard circuit that it controls - you have to completely disassemble the entire system (processers, disks, PSU, motherboard) just to get to the little screw holding it in place? The case looks cool, but that's image only.

The case is NOT disposable! that's the whole point, you are buying something that has been designed, not just thrown together by some junkie in the far east...
Everything is easy to access, repair and replace.  Next chance you get, actually take a look inside a G5, it's quite an eye-opener, it makes all other comps look like crap especially older Macs...

My point about ports on the front and back still stands, it's just a tiny feature that someone has actually put some thought into for a change.


I take a little offense to that.  I wouldn't post it unless I was going from prior experience.  Yes, the case looks pretty on the inside.  Yes, admittedly it has good airflow (and two absolutely gargantuan heatsinks).  But if you've ever talked to an apple tech, the "easy to replace" garbage simply isn't true.  It works well when everything is ok, but when something fails you have to take the entire system apart to get to it.  And, if you call and ask a Mac tech, the case is listed as a disposable part.  So if that embedded hard drive cable that I was telling you about goes, or anything else physically attached to the case, then you can't have it fixed.

And my PC has headphone, microphone, USB, and IEEE 1394 (firewire) ports on the front too.  It's hardly a Mac exclusive.

EDIT:  One major difference between the MacOS and Windows is what causes them to crash.  Windows crashes from running some program that isn't necessarily well-written.  Macs don't tend to let programs crash the system, but the system has ways of crashing itself.  Both OS's have their strengths and weaknesses; Macs tend to focus on looks and "cool" features, whereas Windows focuses a little more on the ability to run program X.  Even if program X is 10 years old.

Quote
Originally posted by Clave
3. Viruses - I don't even have antivirus software installed....

Probably not the best idea, actually. Macs are hardly invulnerable to viruses, and though while they are rare there are plenty of exploits that can be taken advantage of on a Mac. Granted, it's not the gaping hole of vulnerability that Windows can be, but then not much is.

People don't write viruses for OSX, it's hard to make them work inside the System

5. Windows Service Packs - don't make me laugh, OSX gets regular updates which pretty much work, without the pages of 'this may cause problems' crap that you get from MS. And when there is a major upgrade - like the upcoming 10.4 'Tiger' you pay a reasonable amount for it....

You're kidding, right? Other than SP2, which is the exception, not the rule when it comes to MS service packs, I've never had a service pack break anything. I have seen Apple Updates cause other programs to stop working correctly. I've actually seen Apple updates completely bork the system. It's not worse than the Windows equivalent, I just don't think it's any better.

SP2 is what I was talking about, and the jump from 4.2.2 to 95, and the jump from 95 to 98, and Win ME - Nothing is perfect, but Apple software changes have been progressive with one exception - OS9 to OSX, simply because that was a totally different OS, not based on the one before.


In order to make a virus that takes advantage of an exploitable unhandled case, one has to be aware of those exploits.  Not only are Mac viruses less profitable/destructive from a sheer user base perspective, the exploits themselves aren't that widly known.  The reason there aren't more known is precisely the same as the reason you don't see many Mac viruses - there aren't nearly as many Mac users as there are PC.  It's only a strength for the mac as long as they are not extrememtly popular.

If you'll notice, a lot of pre OSX Mac software  (and even some post-OSX) specifies the necessary operating system as a range, not a lower bound.  This goes back to the backwards compatability issue; updates to the OS cause programs to not only develop extraneous behavior, they simply won't run.  At least on a PC, with the exception of the Dos->WinNT transition, everything that worked on an older version is still supported into newer ones.  The transitions you are talking about are actual OS changes, not upgrades, and most of those don't actually break anything.  They just change the system performance for the OS, which is what every major iteration of the Mac OS has done.  You expect things to change when you change your operating system, so the update argument doesn't apply.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2005, 11:00:17 am by 570 »
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Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM