[Jetmech Jr.]

Because if a thread on SC can be made, this deserves one too...

Does anyone still play it? Or did you get fed up with imbalances as well?

[BlackDove]

Dawn of War is the game people played for about 5min before WoW came, right?

Heard it was good.

[Thrilla]

I played the single player, and noticed that it was unbalanced and now I never even touch it.

[Liberator]

What is unbalanced about it?  I was thinking of picking this up after i get my new video card.

[Fury]

I don't know about unbalanced, but single player was a lot of fun. Very good game in my opinion.

[Lt.Cannonfodder]

Originally posted by Mr. Fury
I don't know about unbalanced, but single player was a lot of fun. Very good game in my opinion.

First time in years when I really liked a RTS.

[Sigma957]

I thought it was quite good and fun to watch the battles.

[Jetmech Jr.]

Originally posted by Liberator
What is unbalanced about it?  I was thinking of picking this up after i get my new video card.

Well, assuming that Relic Gets off its Ass and Finally patches the damned thing, I WOULD advise getting it. The game is fun. But Multiplayer...Thats fuzzy. The Game can get terribly unbalanced in Multiplayer.

Each race is unbalanced in it's own little ways, some more than others. Eldar have a number of things, both good and horribly bad. What stands out is the Fire Prism. It's a 4000+ HP Ultra-quick Tank, with a Beam that deals Good damage to EVERYTHING and has Splash/Knockdown, Flight, and an Anti-Infantry Weapon that actually chews through Vehicles faster than said Beam. And it's cheap and spammable.

Space Marines are the only race that can keep a Unit locked down. I.E. 4 Assault Terminators costing about 400 will annihilate an Avatar or Bloodthirster without losing a single member thanks to a stun-stacking ability of theirs. SM players also have the Scout rush, where they spam cheap, fast, effective scouts like no tomorrow. Against players of equal to slightly higher skill, there is little you can do without intensive studying, and even then there's no guarantee.

Chaos Space Marines have Possessed Space Marines, which Can Tear down a Mid-level SM base in a minute. Flat. 1 Minute. Did I mention this unit is available 1-3 minutes into the game, and does horrifying damage to regular units, too? Otherwise, chaos is pretty weak, though. Substandard anti-vehicle.

Orks are just frightening. The Wartrakk rush is tough. Ork buildings have guns, meaning they can fortify their bases VERY easily, allowing for a quick Fast-Tech to Wartrakks, very fast Vehicles that deal sickening amounts of damage to anything not vehicular (and Quite frankly, the odds of having any sort of anti-vehicle unit at this time is...not likely).

There are some other issues, but those are some of the most oft-complained about.

Really, it's a very good game. I just wish the damned folks at Relic would fix it, already...

[Grug]

Well they're adding the Imperial Guard race now too with the expansion pack.

It's possible they might fix some of the balance issues with the expansion pack.

[TrashMan]

I liked DOW....

It is a challenge to adapt to the enemy, and that's why I love the game.
Enemy attacking you with his termies? - equip your marines with plasma!
Emeny attacking with Tanks? - take rocket launchers
Infantry rush? - Heavy Bolters will chew them up.

[Nico]

Originally posted by Jetmech Jr.


Well, assuming that Relic Gets off its Ass and Finally patches the damned thing, I WOULD advise getting it. The game is fun. But Multiplayer...Thats fuzzy. The Game can get terribly unbalanced in Multiplayer.

Each race is unbalanced in it's own little ways, some more than others. Eldar have a number of things, both good and horribly bad. What stands out is the Fire Prism. It's a 4000+ HP Ultra-quick Tank, with a Beam that deals Good damage to EVERYTHING and has Splash/Knockdown, Flight, and an Anti-Infantry Weapon that actually chews through Vehicles faster than said Beam. And it's cheap and spammable.

Space Marines are the only race that can keep a Unit locked down. I.E. 4 Assault Terminators costing about 400 will annihilate an Avatar or Bloodthirster without losing a single member thanks to a stun-stacking ability of theirs. SM players also have the Scout rush, where they spam cheap, fast, effective scouts like no tomorrow. Against players of equal to slightly higher skill, there is little you can do without intensive studying, and even then there's no guarantee.

Chaos Space Marines have Possessed Space Marines, which Can Tear down a Mid-level SM base in a minute. Flat. 1 Minute. Did I mention this unit is available 1-3 minutes into the game, and does horrifying damage to regular units, too? Otherwise, chaos is pretty weak, though. Substandard anti-vehicle.

Orks are just frightening. The Wartrakk rush is tough. Ork buildings have guns, meaning they can fortify their bases VERY easily, allowing for a quick Fast-Tech to Wartrakks, very fast Vehicles that deal sickening amounts of damage to anything not vehicular (and Quite frankly, the odds of having any sort of anti-vehicle unit at this time is...not likely).

There are some other issues, but those are some of the most oft-complained about.

Really, it's a very good game. I just wish the damned folks at Relic would fix it, already...

So they all have strong units and weaknesses? mmh...

[IceFire]

Actually thats a problem.  The best balanced RTS games show that you need a mix of units to overcome the enemies mix.  Whoever mixes and places better wins.

Its a rock paper scissors type of setup.

In C&C Generals a tank rush can be countered in numbers by rocket launcher units (all sides have them), infantry rushes beaten off by other infantry and light vehicles (like humvees, gatling tanks, and technicals or toxin tractors), and air units are light and easily destroyed by units that are capable of countering them but of course air is very mobile and fast striking so defenses have to be planned.

In Warcraft III its more complicated by different armor types, weapon types, heroes, and spell caster/anti-spellcasters.  But its like C&C Generals in that there is a requirement for a balance of units in a rock/paper/scissors like combination.

If one unit manages to fill all roles and is easily built then why bother building anything else.  The game degenerates into whoever can build the killer unit faster...and if one team gets it sooner in the tech tree then its easier for that side to win than another.

RTS games are very complex to balance.

[Jetmech Jr.]

Originally posted by Nico


So they all have strong units and weaknesses? mmh...

Don't get smart with me, pal

It doesn't work like that. Take the Scout rush, for example. Scouts have 3/4ths the damage of Space Marines, only 50 less Hp, and run as fast as an Eldar using Fleet of Foot. They also aren't affected by the slowing effects of Cover. They can dictate When and where they take you on, and they can utterly ruin your economy by dashing in, Decapping your points, and dashing out with super speed. They cost 1 Pop cap, and are the ONLY unit with that low cost. They also come out at 90 Req, remarkably cheap for their abilities.

This strategy can be performed at a SUBSTANTIALLY lower player skill. And there are Few to no counters, as the first Scouts usually start ****ing with you at 40 Seconds in.

Eldar Fire Prisms. Are uncounterable. NOTHING in the entire game beats them on cost. Not even anti-Vehicle units. LasPreds come out Far later, and cost twice as much. Vs 2 Fire Prisms, it MIGHT come out with 50 Health. A dedicated anti vehicle platform will fight 2 Vehicles on equivalent cost, and Fight to a draw. When you up the numbers, it gets worse. Prism Cannons have an ENORMOUS AoE. They can hit several Targets with one shot.

A good Eldar player can have these out at 5-7 Minutes in.

[Nico]

Mmh. Well, to be honest, I always considered it odd to have a WH40k game with unit production. If I were to make a WH RTS, I'd do a bastardized version of the tabletop game: I'd give the player a number of points to spend before the battle starts, you give orders of reinforcements, something like that, and your units would then come depending on what happens ingame ( if you get a major ass wooping, the next wave of reinforcement comes earlier, stuff like that ). That way you can keep the restrictions on units the tabletop game as, and you'd have to think better than sacrifying your units in rushes.
But I know, I'm weird.

[Beowulf]

It's fun for a stint but not unique.

[Swamp_Thing]

Originally posted by Nico
Mmh. Well, to be honest, I always considered it odd to have a WH40k game with unit production.

And what did you think of the WH first person shooter? That one hadn´t anything to do with the original either, but in comparison this RTS is a gold gem! The FPS was just horrible! Simply appalling! Worst i´ve seen yet. I couldn´t play it for more than 10 minutes, i had to stop playing it to avoid major damage to my brain. Now there´s a game they should have left well alone...



PS: Reinstalled WH: Dawn of War today again, and i´m having a blast.
If they added air units, a few more ground units, and some new buildings and walls in the sequel, it would become a super game.
The bigger problem of it now, is its very little variety in units and buildings. Fix that, and you get a major sucess.

[Grug]

Actually Nico, I would of prefered a bastardised version of the table top game also. Something more akin to Rome: Total War would of been quite nice indeed.
With a much simplified campaign mode so as to focus more on the battles.
Maybe one day someone will make a WH40k: Total War mod.

[Cyker]

DOW is a fraggin' awesome game!

It's not as balanced as StarCraft, but then what is?! That game is a work of art!

That said, it's balance is okay - If you LEARN your side, you can beat almost any other side, but you have to be very flexible.

It also depends heavily on what your objectives are and the map size.

On a small map with annihilate, a good marine player can destroy almost anyone.
On a large annihilate map, eldar are very hard to defeat - They can drop fire-prisms in the middle of your base which has pretty much the same effect as the 9xPrism-tank|Chronosphere finisher in C&C.

We normally play take-and-hold type mission: All sides are very balanced in that.
Orks and Eldar are very good at taking points, but have trouble holding them whereas both Marine-types are harder to capture points with but once they dig in they're bloody hard to get rid of without using all your forces.

Eldar are my favorite team - They the fastest race in the game and you can capture lots of points very early on. Their agility also lets them wizz from one side of the map to the other, which is awesome for counter-attacks and reinforcing.
The other race I tend to play are the Space Marines - They play very differently than the Eldar - Unlike the Eldar, their units are built like brick s**t-houses, but they are very slow, so you have to plan well in advance because it's hard to reinforce them if something goes wrong. The one trick they have up their sleave is their teleport beacon - Dropping a commander unit into a scouted base so he can nuke it, or just a crap-load of dreadnoughts anywhere, is great fun

I don't have too much experience with Chaos or Orks, but I do know the Squiggoth is a right bastard to get rid of
The Avatar and Khorne suck compared to the Squiggoth - You can kill them with some upgraded commander units and some dreads/fire-prisms! The squiggy on the other hand... haven't found a good way to counter it aside from throwing lots of bodies at it until it goes away

[Nico]

Originally posted by Swamp_Thing


And what did you think of the WH first person shooter? That one hadn´t anything to do with the original either, but in comparison this RTS is a gold gem! The FPS was just horrible! Simply appalling! Worst i´ve seen yet. I couldn´t play it for more than 10 minutes, i had to stop playing it to avoid major damage to my brain. Now there´s a game they should have left well alone...

Well, what did I think about Firewarrior? At first I was overjoyed ( at first, I mean when I started playing it, not the original announcement, I was quite... doubtful about it ). I'm a warhammer and warhammer40k player, and in 40K, I play Tau. And the atmosphere, I think, was very clause to what I imagined.
All in all, I don't think it was a bad game. The bases are there I think, it's rather fun to play too. But it lacks something, and there were parts that were horrible ( the difficulty, the second time you meet the space marines, when an assault team warps on the bridge of the cruise, man, it took me a dozen tries to beat that part ). I still haven't completed it, I'm stuck in the last level, not far after you go through a chaotic portal, iirc.
What did I think of it? Well, I don't think much of it, to sum up. It wasn't a great FPS, but it wasn't a waste of money either, I think.

Grug: it seems that Dawn of War was a major hit, and they're making an addon ( with baneblade tanks and other big stuff, from the screenshots ), called "Winter -something-". Maybe they'll tune up the game better with it, like they did with Frozen Throne for Warcraft3 and Firestorm for Tiberian Sun ( IMHO those two addons upgraded their games very well ).
 As for the game, I only played the demo, so I have no opinion on it. I just remembre liking how the ork buildings were "built"

[Jetmech Jr.]

Winter Assault.