[Pnakotus]

Are you suggesting some ability to control the targets your turrets shoot without controlling them directly?  Is that possible under FS2?

[Col. Fishguts]

Sounds interesting, make a test mission for proof-of-concept.

[Dark RevenantX]

It is very possible indeed.
A five SEXP set for one turret group.

Example for controlling a Leviathan's SGreen:
First make sure that the Leviathan's beam is locked.
Also, make the following Variables: (name/type/starting value)

• [istargettingsgreen] integer - 0
• [targetsgreen] string - (none)
• [canfiresgreen] integer - 1
• [delaysgreen] integer - 0

Event 1. Fire button is pressed - Activate when {key to fire the beam} is pressed while [istargettingsgreen] is at 0.  Key Reset and set [targetsgreen] to the current target of the player.  Set [istargettingsgreen] to 1.  Message to player "Targetting with small beam cannon".

Event 2. Fire button is pressed again - Activate when {key to fire the beam} is pressed while [istargettingsgreen] is at 1.  Key Reset and set [istargettingsgreen] to 0.  Message to player "Small beam cannon deactivated".

Event 3. Fire at target - Activate when [istargettingsgreen] is at 1 while [canfiresgreen] is at 1.  Set [canfiresgreen] to 0 and fire the turret that has the sgreen at [targetsgreen].

Event 4. Firing delay - Activate when [delaysgreen] is at 0 while [canfiresgreen] is at 0.  Set [delaysgreen] to 1.  Wait for 45 (delay of the sgreen) seconds.  Set [delaysgreen] to 0 and set [canfiresgreen] to 1.

Event 5. Target destroyed - Activate when [targetsgreen] is destroyed.  Set [istargettingsgreen] to 0.  Message to player "Small beam cannon target terminated - deactivating small beam cannon".

This would make it so that when you hit a key, the beam will automatically fire at your current target, and keep firing at that target until it is destroyed, or when you deactivate it.  When you want to quickly switch targets, you need to double-tap the key (but not too quickly!).

Obviously, turrets and AAA beams would be treated differently.  They would be taken usually in groups, sizes depending on how many the ship has.  Also, turrets would be unlocked when not set to target anything in particular; their AI would make them shoot at random things automatically.

You see, it is possible, Pnakotus.

I wish I could ATM.  As soon as I get a new Windows OS machine, I will whip out a test mission for you guys.

[Flaser]

I really like his approach - its closer to what a captain would do.
IMHO the ultimate SCP support for this (and other high ranking positions) would be the ability to assign different targets for your forces.

These new add Ai-goal fuctions could be:

Assign Primary target (85% priority), previous target(s) goes into Sec.
Assign Secondary target (65% priority), previous target(s) goes into Ter.
Assign Tertiary target (45% priority) previous target flushed.

Add Primary target (85% priority), old target(s) kept
Add Secondary target (65% priority), old target(s) kept
Add Tertiary target (45% priority), old target(s) kept

Flush Primary target list
Flush Secondary target list
Flush Tertiary target list

Disregard Secondary targets (only targets above 65% are attacked)
Disregard Teriary targets (only targets above 45% are attacked)

Disengage (the ship only attacks its own attackers, and tries to pull away (may be hard to implement)

Assign to Squad
Assign Squad formation

Beside these "command" sexps IMHO the ability to assign orders to your own turrets in the same manner as how you handle your wingman could good.

[Dark RevenantX]

The weapon-related things would make it too easy.  All the work on the start and the rest is basically a show.  The others are simply too damn hard!  Besides, you can control your fighters with the built-in menu in-game.

I am making it in such a way that you must keep your side's fighters alive.  Just one wing could be the balance between victory and defeat!  Just a forewarning.

[Mefustae]

This could possibly the one time BoE type Missions could actually work! I mean, who here wouldn't want to be in a Fenris cruiser, sliding through the middle of a BoE style Cap Fest, protecting the larger ships in your fleet from bombers, and taking pot shots at 'Vettes and Destroyers! Of course, it'd have to be very well made, but i would just love to be in a Cap ship leading a Flotilla of craft into a massive battle situation...

...only to be destroyed thirteen seconds later by an errant Helios...

[Cobra]

for the primary weapon, i think it should be the main beam cannon that you can fire yourself.

maybe i can make a bridge for the cap ships?

[StratComm]

Precisely.  You're piloting a huge ship that is extremely vulnerable to errant weapons fire.  One well-laid bomb or beam and you're out half your turrets, engines, and nav, or you're toast completely.  If you're the biggest ship around, then there may be some argument, but ultimately I think FS is the wrong game to put you in control of a capital ship.

[Cobra]

the whole point is coordinating your fighters when you're in a capship. that way you won't get hit with bombs as much.

[StratComm]

How are your pilots going to cover you from a beam barrage though?  Nevermind that the AI's defending ability is absolute garbage, and I wouldn't put my faith in their stoping a bomb any day.

[Jetmech Jr.]

...Make the AI better

And remember: you have AAAf Beams and (maybe) Flak. If those arent good for bomb interception, I don't know what is (besides Alpha 1).

As for beams: Move out of the path. IIRC, they won't follow your ship once they've fired.

[Dark RevenantX]

You can put yourself out of commision for 30 seconds to repair your vital subsystems, or 45 seconds to repair your vital turrets.

The lowdown: Sorry, you aren't going to get in anything equal to or larger than a Destroyer.  I'm skeptical of even letting you pilot a Corvette!

You need to be just as afraid of being blown up by a beam in a capship as you are in a fighter, so I will make it in a way that has a huge danger.  There will only be a couple BoE missions, as they are so freaking hard to get right.  Don't even try to live through a BoE mission in a Fenris; you will only get one after you are sent to an Aeolus (which is the most powerful GTVA Cruiser, but still falls behind the Rakshasa and Lilith).

Also, the problem with firing the beams manually is that you have no idea when it is active again.  Also, it would be awkward in the case of the Aeolus and its 3 sgreens, 2 in the front and 1 in the back.  If you wanted to fire them all, you would have to select the first, fire it, select the second, fire it, select the third, turn freecamera on, turn the camera around so that you see behind you, fire it, and turn freecamera off.  Or, you could just target the ships you want to fire at, push a few keys, then be happy until you wish to change targets.  In a cruiser, a stray Helios could severely compromise you.  I doubt that it would kill you if you have enough health, as you are in a capital ship.

The main reason for the manual fire not to work is the weapons subsystem.  You are supposed to lose accuracy when your weapons subsystem is hurt.  You can't lose accuracy if you are firing the beam!

As for the BoE missions, it is not only hard form good gameplay, it also is hard to make the battle last.  Beams are really, really powerful.  How long will a ship last to eight beams at the same time?

Anyone is welcome to try to make it while I try to get a computer.  You need 2 things: FS2 SCP and time.

EDIT: I hate it when people post while I type!  You can order your fighters to blow up the beam turret of an enemy ship if the beams are giving you a problem.

[Mefustae]

Here's a solution to crappy AI not doing anything to protect you from bombs; someone could program "Alpha 1 AI", sort of a golden breed of AI, all packed into a Golden Perseus (or what have you), and we're talking AI that will avoid collisions, make their shots accurate, knows it's playing FreeSpace 2, and at every chance, try to break out of your computer through your internet connection and take over the world Skynet Style...

[Cobra]

nice.

[Pnakotus]

I think this is a ****ing amazing idea.  I had no idea SEXPs were so flexible: using the logic he described, you could concievably set up groups of weapons to be prioritied to different threats, defence, etc.  The 'roll' function will also mean player caps are infinitely better than AI ones, since we'll all roll the whole time, using all of our big beals.

Dark Revenant is now my hero.  I wonder if his work can be used to improve the capship AI generally?

[Singh]

one problemt hough: The ai is NOT going to fire the anti-cap beams anything other than the nearest target. Such is it's limitation, but i could probably be 'cheated' by using fire-beam.

[Singh]

Originally posted by Dark RevenantX

Also, the problem with firing the beams manually is that you have no idea when it is active again.  Also, it would be awkward in the case of the Aeolus and its 3 sgreens, 2 in the front and 1 in the back.  If you wanted to fire them all, you would have to select the first, fire it, select the second, fire it, select the third, turn freecamera on, turn the camera around so that you see behind you, fire it, and turn freecamera off.  Or, you could just target the ships you want to fire at, push a few keys, then be happy until you wish to change targets.  In a cruiser, a stray Helios could severely compromise you.  I doubt that it would kill you if you have enough health, as you are in a capital ship.

The main reason for the manual fire not to work is the weapons subsystem.  You are supposed to lose accuracy when your weapons subsystem is hurt.  You can't lose accuracy if you are firing the beam!

Actually, a training message can be used, triggered every 35 seconds after the beam is fired or the button is reset.

[NGTM-1R]

The problem with lack of defending is that the engagement radius for fighters escorting cruiser and corvette-sized ships is too small. From the AI's behavior, I have managed to deduce that, given escort orders, the radius within which a fighter will engage hostile craft is dependant on either the type or the size of the craft being escorted, probably the former.

When defending a destroyer, fighters will engage anything that comes within three or four kilometers. This is good. Hostile bombers are intercepted well before they can launch their first salvo of bombs.

When defending a corvette, they engage at two or two and a half kilometers. Hostile bombers are normally intercepted before they launch their first bomb salvo, but not by much; and sometimes they get the bombs off before being jumped.

When defending a cruiser, escorts engage at one or one point five kilometers. Hostile bombers will either be jumped right as they launch, or launch before being intercepted.

And finally, the unkindest cut of all, the one that prompted me to take a look at this and see how escorts behaved: escorting an Argo transport, I have seen, repeatedly, a wing of Myrmidons launch Hornet missiles at the transport before the escort wing even moves to intercept them. It was during a mission from Derelict, whose name I have forgotten at the moment. To get any useful behavior out of my wingmen I had to order them to escort the transport, then once the enemy wing entered, order them to engage the enemy so they would attack on their own hook.

[Dark RevenantX]

It is easier to command fighters than you think.  All you do is select the bomb flying toward you and make them destroy your target.  Shooting all flak guns and AAA beams at it helps too.

Also, in the intrest of ship health, I could make beams become highly inaccurate.  Instead of being blown to bits from eight beams, you will be crippled from two beams, while laughing at the six other beams that missed you.

I learned how to make SEXPs with such flexability from my workings in Wc3's World Editor.  I pushed that thing to its limits; and it had multiple times as much of actions, events, conditions, functions, and statements than what you have when making SEXPs.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by ngtm1r
The problem with lack of defending is that the engagement radius for fighters escorting cruiser and corvette-sized ships is too small. From the AI's behavior, I have managed to deduce that, given escort orders, the radius within which a fighter will engage hostile craft is dependant on either the type or the size of the craft being escorted, probably the former.

When defending a destroyer, fighters will engage anything that comes within three or four kilometers. This is good. Hostile bombers are intercepted well before they can launch their first salvo of bombs.

When defending a corvette, they engage at two or two and a half kilometers. Hostile bombers are normally intercepted before they launch their first bomb salvo, but not by much; and sometimes they get the bombs off before being jumped.

When defending a cruiser, escorts engage at one or one point five kilometers. Hostile bombers will either be jumped right as they launch, or launch before being intercepted.

And finally, the unkindest cut of all, the one that prompted me to take a look at this and see how escorts behaved: escorting an Argo transport, I have seen, repeatedly, a wing of Myrmidons launch Hornet missiles at the transport before the escort wing even moves to intercept them. It was during a mission from Derelict, whose name I have forgotten at the moment. To get any useful behavior out of my wingmen I had to order them to escort the transport, then once the enemy wing entered, order them to engage the enemy so they would attack on their own hook.

Interestingly, if you look at the engage distance for the cruiser and corvette, that's roughly within the range of AAAf beams, which sort of corresponds with the players orders to draw escorts away from the NTC Majestic and Refute in the mission where you trap the NTD Repulse.