[Black13]

(Raa, have mercy on my non egyptian soul if this doesn't belong here!   )

I have to say that I am an inferno fanboy - it was my first mod ever for FS2 a long time ago -

I am replaying it now, after seeing that there is a serious community dedicated to "keeping it real" so to speak.  

So I reloaded inferno yesterday and played it all day.  I love mostly everything about it - as I said once before a long time ago - but this time something dawned on me and has me really ticked off.

What is with the balancing issues of the beam cannons!?!?!

The warlock carrier is supposed to be strong, yet in every mission it is in it gets torn to pieces by (seemingly weaker beam cannons).  Am I the only one who doesn't get this - is there some key piece of info I am missing?  I read all the techroom info on the different types of ships and I just don't get how a corvette's or even a crusier's beams can do such massive damage over such a short period of time.  

I don't know - maybe I am just crazy

[Dark RevenantX]

Don't worry.  I'm crazy too.

Also, beams are strong.  If left alone a group of fenrisi can eventually blow up a Colossus.

[Black13]

I know that anything with a beam cannon can eventually tear down something big - however we are not talking 20 minutes of continual fire - we are talking in about 6 minutes.  Sometimes on max burn it takes about 1-2 minutes just to fly out to where some of these ships spawn in at -

I don't know, it just seems to be un-reasonably hard

[redsniper]

Well I don't even get why the GTVA and EA are fighting in the first place. Shouldn't they be happy to be reunited and all?

[Boomer]

Well I don't even get why the GTVA and EA are fighting in the first place. Shouldn't they be happy to be reunited and all?

That bothered me too.  Even with Sol: A History to consider, it makes more sense that the EA would be a temporary body to exist until they reconneted with the GTVA, doesn't it?

[Kie99]

Shouldn't this be in the Inferno Forum?

[Black13]

honestly it probably should be - but I am at work and don't have all my bookmarks -

I was pretty sure that I saw an inferno forum, but wasn't positive - sorry everyone

[Hippo]

The balancing is there to make the game a challenge.

The EA/GTVA rivalry so to speak should becoem more clear after the next release.

[Black13]

Right Hippo -


what I am arguing is that that system of balancing is flawed - I mean, you totally take the control out of the players hand when it takes 10 minutes to fly to an enemy cap ship but the enemy cap ship can end your mission in 5.  

Don't get me wrong, I like a challenge, but I feel bad for the inferno writers, (unless they are also the level creators) who hype some of the ships up to being these incredible weapons platforms and then they turn out to be wiped out easily by two corvettes.  

I haven't played with Fred2 + Inferno - so I don't know how hard it is to create balance - and maybe should have waited to post this topic - but after failing the disable the diablo mission and failing the capture the earth gate mission like 100 times on very easy last night because of AI faults (in one play through, the hawthor never fired a friggin shot - I had to chip away all 4 weapon modules myself)

Anyway, I guess I should just let this thread die - since ultimately I posted it in the wrong place - but before I do let me just say that -

I don't want to be considered a naysayer - I love the story (so far), I love the ships, and the effects - but I think some of the missions are hard in the wrong way.  Hard the right way - 30 scorpions jump in - and swarm your bombers rather than one shivan corvette knocking 30 hit points off the GTVA's flagship carrier.

[Woomeister]

Originally posted by Black13
The warlock carrier is supposed to be strong, yet in every mission it is in it gets torn to pieces by (seemingly weaker beam cannons).  Am I the only one who doesn't get this - is there some key piece of info I am missing?  I read all the techroom info on the different types of ships and I just don't get how a corvette's or even a crusier's beams can do such massive damage over such a short period of time.

The Warlock isn't an uber ship, so smaller ships can hurt it. If we made it that cruisers and corvettes can't hurt larger ships that well, it would mean we would have to send larger ships to counter them every time a large ship is used.
Remember that a large ship has stronger weapons than the smaller ships, and so can take them down pretty quickly.

Originally posted by Boomer
That bothered me too. Even with Sol: A History to consider, it makes more sense that the EA would be a temporary body to exist until they reconneted with the GTVA, doesn't it?

Sol A History has nothing to do with us. Why would a government that has just fought a long and hard civil war to control the system just hand over the system to the GTVA and dissolve itself?

Originally posted by Black13
but after failing the disable the diablo mission and failing the capture the earth gate mission like 100 times on very easy last night because of AI faults (in one play through, the hawthor never fired a friggin shot - I had to chip away all 4 weapon modules myself)

If your failing it that many times on very easy then you need to get better really.
Just attacking enemy capships is not an option. The campaign is designed to make the player prioritise enemy turrets. Just hammering enemy ships with lasers and missiles won't work.
Take out the turrets and the enemy beams won't destroy your escort ships.

If the Hathor isn't firing then something is broken on your end as its scripted to fire on the gate. Check the exe your using and that there's no table conflicts.

Originally posted by Black13
but I think some of the missions are hard in the wrong way. Hard the right way - 30 scorpions jump in - and swarm your bombers rather than one shivan corvette knocking 30 hit points off the GTVA's flagship carrier.

30 odd Scorpions would easily take down your AI wingmen, then you would have 30 to take down yourself. On very easy the game limits you to 2 ships targeting you at once, but on insane, they would all be gunning for you.

A corvettes beam turret takes a few seconds to take out, then you don't have to worry about that turret again.

[Black13]

OK, I am actually kind of sorry that a mod moved this - as putting it into the inferno forum more or less ensured that I would irritate someone -

that being said though - no it isn't my skill - I can easily handle the entire freespace1 and 2 campaign on medium - and I also got to the disable the diablo mission on medium - without too many retries - but that mission just kept failing, because the kismit or whatever kept living way too long.  (I can actually get a few shots on it myself - which when I finally did beat that mission - I didn't come close before AI killed that corvette).  

As for the Hawthor - I failed that mission the first time on medium, but the first time on very easy the ship warped in, and immediately turned 90 degrees on its axis straight down - it then needed 17 minutes to fly in an arch to get back into firing position.  I don't know if it would have fired had it returned, as on very easy it was easy to chip away at the weapon modules.  

As for the problem being on my end - well, there is no way to be sure - but I can say this - I posted about problems in this thread: http://www.hard-light.net/forums/index.php/topic,33018.0.html

and I did reinstall and everything else worked fine.  I understand that since you probably don't get a lot of people complaining about this apparent non bug that it "must" make it my problem - but as that seems to be the only bug I have experienced using inferno so if that makes it my problem so be it -

Finally - as for the 30 scorpions - I know that would make it easy, or incredibly insane - the point I was trying to make was that my opinion was that a mission should be hard because of what the player has to do - not because of mission parameters.  

In the end, I love inferno - I am a fan of all the obvious hard work - I am not an enemy - I am not a naysayer - and I wish I had half the talent to make something similar someday - basically I posted that to see if people were in agreement with me.  Since no one really took my side, I guess they are not.

[RED DIAMOND]

Despite my undying love for inferno, I found the campaign a serious exercise in frustration as well. I did feel it was a bit hard to repeatedly protect a cap ship that is facing multiple cap ships and bombers. Having said that, I don't think I am a top ace LOL!

The plot also caught me off guard, but I think it is highly plausible and I like it afterall. The thing it opens up IMHO is a spin off enemy within SOL. I mean I would think that the EA would spark a natural rebellion under the right circumstances.

The addition of the ancients also opens up plot possiblites that would not be there without inferno. The ships and artwork alone make it a keeper and "THE" mod to build missions for IMHO.

Rumor has it that Khasai Dynamics is much more than just a military weapons company

[Woomeister]

Originally posted by Black13
OK, I am actually kind of sorry that a mod moved this - as putting it into the inferno forum more or less ensured that I would irritate someone -  

Well you haven't irritated me so there

Originally posted by Black13
that being said though - no it isn't my skill - I can easily handle the entire freespace1 and 2 campaign on medium - and I also got to the disable the diablo mission on medium - without too many retries - but that mission just kept failing, because the kismit or whatever kept living way too long.  (I can actually get a few shots on it myself - which when I finally did beat that mission - I didn't come close before AI killed that corvette).

The Kismat should be destroyed by the Warlock in a matter of seconds and it barely survives the previous mission. Like the Hathor it sounds like you might be using a buggy SCP build.

Originally posted by Black13
and I did reinstall and everything else worked fine.  I understand that since you probably don't get a lot of people complaining about this apparent non bug that it "must" make it my problem - but as that seems to be the only bug I have experienced using inferno so if that makes it my problem so be it -

The bugs your describing sound like you have a bad turret code version of SCP. That's why I recommended checking what exe your using in my previous post. Most bugs we receive are traced back to certain SCP bugs and problems, and so we can't fix them.

Originally posted by Black13
In the end, I love inferno - I am a fan of all the obvious hard work - I am not an enemy - I am not a naysayer - and I wish I had half the talent to make something similar someday - basically I posted that to see if people were in agreement with me.  Since no one really took my side, I guess they are not.

I don't know how many people still play with R1 as most are waiting for R2 now. I know I haven't touched R1 since I made the SCP patch, except to run the last staff test missions for picking mission designers.

[-Norbert-]

So there is no absolute way to describe skill in a good - bad scale.
I played FS2 through on medium too, but I was far from "playing it through without problems".

But for Inferno, I liked the difficult.
I had to retry a mission from time to time, because I failed to comprehend the correct tactic for it in time, but that's nothing that would seems frustrating to me, unlike some missions in FS2 I had to retry more often, not because I choose the wrong tactic, but because it was so damn hard, even with the right tactic.

[RED DIAMOND]

I did find myself editing down the damage of all the beam weapons to produce longer more balanced and fun battles.

I also could not help but to add a faction to fight the EA, just prior to and after the GTVA return. Hey, a represive empire will always spawn a rival.    The black mate models from the OTT release fit "perfectly" for the rivals to the EA. They could be considered the HOL for Earth, as they are partial to the many Vasudans trapped in SOL.  

The best thing for me is I get to play my ALLTIME favorite space sim, again years after I stopped, but better because of the minds and hard work of the guys here. S~

[Kosh]

The Warlock isn't an uber ship,

It's not?

I always considered it an uber ship because it could munch destroyers with ease. It was still severly overgunned for a command carrier that is supposed to hang back anyway........

[NGTM-1R]

Not really.

Consider the GTVA's first experience with a command-carrier type of ship, the Hecate: undergunned and unable to defend against its contemporaries. It was not safe from them, either, because of the ability to make subspace jumps: if there is an enemy ship in the system, it can attack any target in the same system in under a minute.

Thus, the GTVA learned that since a command carrier would not be safe from enemy capital ship attack, it had to be able to defend itself against such an attack. Hence the Warlock's weapons outfit.

[Woomeister]

It doesn't hang back much in R1. In R2 the Independence has only shown up once, and it doesn't stay for long.

Of course your not even stationed on it. Your on the Oracle instead.

[Hippo]

Originally posted by Woomeister
It doesn't hang back much in R1. In R2 the Independence has only shown up once, and it doesn't stay for long.

Wait... Is that my mission?

[Woomeister]

Yes it is