Author Topic: 70th Blue Lions  (Read 2229 times)

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Offline Andreas

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Was the 70th formed when Alpha 1 took command of it, or did it already exist before that? Just a quick question I thought to ask.

The briefing for sm3-06.fsm says "Because of your outstanding service to the Alliance, the GTVA has granted you command of your own elite fighter squadron, the 70th Blue Lions. " I always got the impression that the 70th was just formed from this briefing.

Though the debriefing for the previous mission also states that "Rumor has it you'll be leading the 70th Blue Lions, and I can't think of a better pilot for the job." This one sounds like Alpha 1 will only assume command of the squadron.

I know it doesn't really matter, but what's your take on it?
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Offline Unknown Target

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It probably existed before hand. They wouldn't form a brand new unit just for him, right on the spot, I think.

Plus, it says it's an "elite" unit, which implies it's seen some experience and been around for awhile.

 

Offline karajorma

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It's quite possible that they would assemble an elite unit on the fly by simply selecting elite pilots.

Look at the way the SAS started after all. They simply assembled it because they needed it during the WWII (I'm simplifying so lets not get off-topic correcting me)

The way the military works it's perfectly possible that everyone had heard that a new squadron was being assembled but that no one knew who would lead it so I wouldn't assume that the debrief means that the 70th isn't new.

Personally I've always believed that the 70th was new. Command knew they were in trouble and they would have had no shortage of elite pilots whose squadrons had been mostly wiped out. Under those circumstances organising an elite unit would have been pretty simple.
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Offline Eishtmo

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Pre-existing squadron, probably made up of the best of the best.  Probably has been in existance since after the Great War.  Makes more sense for it to be formed then, when most of the original squadrons had been decimated by the Shivans.  The best pilots were put into one squadron and sent on the most dangerous missions.

Correction, if they had any sense, only the second best pilots would be in the squadron.  The best would be too busy training the next generation.
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Offline Night Hammer

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yeah but what makes you think command had any sense
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Well, if you're choosing to use the phrase "took command", then you would seem to be leaning towards it already existing.
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Offline Goober5000

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I had always taken for granted that it existed prior to Alpha 1 taking command, but now that I think of it I'm more inclined to agree with karajorma.  Various phrases throughout the last part of the game seem to point to it being newly organized.

 

Offline Roanoke

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seen as Alpha 1 has carried the entire war effort, a new squad to command doesn't seem like too much to ask

 

Offline Kie99

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Wouldn't it have a higher number than 70 if it was new.  I always assumed that they were the 70th squadron ever created.  Remember the 53rd Hammerheads, they started in the Great War, and their number is quite low.
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In the training command briefing, where it lists the units formerly stationed on the Bastion, you can see (I think) the 79th

The 70th is definately not a 'new' squadron.  However, history is replete with instances of units being disbanded, only to be reformed at a later date (sometimes years afterwards) with the same name and emblem but a totally new set of personnel.
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Unit numbering in long-existing military systems tends to be a bit of a mockery.

It's also possible that the 70th was a deactivated unit from the 14-Year-War or Great War and the unit's number, name, and insigina was reactivated for the Second Shivan Invasion.

However, for some reason I seem to remember a 70th unit on the Bastion's roster in FS1...I'm not sure it had the same name, but I need to find that and check.

There is precedent for hard-pressed forces creating "expert" units as a last-ditch defence. Both Germany and Japan created units like that in late WWII.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2005, 04:47:07 am by 2191 »
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Offline karajorma

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Quote
Originally posted by kv1at3485
The 70th is definately not a 'new' squadron.  However, history is replete with instances of units being disbanded, only to be reformed at a later date (sometimes years afterwards) with the same name and emblem but a totally new set of personnel.


That's pretty much the way I view it. There definately was a 70th squadron before but it might not even have been the Blue Lions. If for instance the original 70th was in the 6th Fleet and defected to the NTF command might try to recreate the squadron now that the NTF are gone in order to bring some glory back to the number.
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Since we are talking about real/previous Air Force Squadrons, does anyone know of any units as being called 'elite'?

 

Offline karajorma

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Well the Iraqi Republican Guard always had that word as a prefix (Until Gulf War I when we bombed them for a month straight and never saw a response) :D

No doubt quite a few people are going to get the reference
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Combat units?  Well, no.  The blue angels are typically called elite, and apparently there was an elite recon squad in vietnam called VO-67.  Google turned up something about an 8th Special Operations squadron in the USAF, apparently a behind the lines recovery specialist.

 

Offline pyro-manic

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SAS, SBS, RMCs, SEAL teams, GSG-9, etc. could all be called "elite". It implies higher levels of skill and training than most units, and probably access to the best equipment. Some, such as the SAS, will be "invitation" units, ie you are asked to join if you're good enough, rather than applying to join yourself. I think elite status is relative, eg. the Republican Guard probably had far less training than your average British squaddie, but compared to the average Iraqi conscript they were far superior.

I'm not sure about Air Force units, though. I think some Battle of Britain squadrons could have been called elite by the end of 1940 - with so many pilots getting killed, the best would stand out because they would be aces (5 or more kills) and more importantly would still be alive.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2005, 08:31:56 am by 853 »
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Offline NGTM-1R

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Towards the end of WWII, the Germans built an elite squadron of some of their best pilots, including Adolf Galland, and called it Jagervband 44. The Japanese had several elite units: they started WWII with the Tanian Air Group, had the Hachiman Air Group around 1944, and shortly before war's end formed the "Squadron of Experts" out of their best pilots. The last never really saw combat as it was being preserved to combat the invasion of the home islands (which never took place).

The USAAF never really formed elite air units the way that the Axis did. Their pilots weren't kept in action long enough; two or three tours and then they were sent back to the States to train new pilots. The USN delibrately spread its better pilots around by giving them command posistions.

Whether the RAF or Fleet Air Arm ever formed something along the lines of an elite unit is something I'm not really sure of, although the Lancaster squadron that did the Rohr River dambusting among other things perhaps qualifies.
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Offline karajorma

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I'm assuming cannon_fodder meant units that are actually called elite rather than being called special forces or some other similar name cause there are obviously lots of units made up of elite soldiers.
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Quote
I'm assuming cannon_fodder meant units that are actually called elite rather than being called special forces or some other similar name cause there are obviously lots of units made up of elite soldiers.


True, but i was mostly reffering to any air squadrons that are reffered to as 'elite'.  

Also, thanks everyone for putting in your info!

 

Offline Charismatic

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Yeah i remember the 70th B.L. being in the roster of the Bastion or Aquitane, in some ani. file. Im assuming twards the end of the game.

Alpha 1 would be eleite, and yes it would be easy to find eleite pilots.

So in the first 5 missions, how many full squadrons of wing-mates die? Hmm, out of 3-4 wings, all but Alpha 1 and maby at most 2 othr pilots are dead. Most  missions, out of Alpha nad Beta, ALpha 1 survives. So if this is common, it would be very easy for them to make a eleite squadron.

Then again, that being the case, i feel sorry for all those other pilots who cant fight worth ****. I cant even imagine how many missions were failed without Alpha 1's assitance. No wonder Command lost their wits so soon.

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« Last Edit: June 05, 2005, 08:29:43 pm by 1564 »
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