[karajorma]

Originally posted by Bobboau
America is the most powerful nation on earth, so they are expected to treat the most vile people ever to live as kings, AlQueda on the other hand is a band of terrorists so no one cares if they behead people or what have you.
double standard.
maybe if we saw some outrage over stuf they were doing we would care.

Everyone was outraged. When America went in to Afghanistan to capture Bin Laden you had almost worldwide support.

Don't blame us if your leaders managed to squander all the sympathy the world had for America after 9/11 with their greed, lies and mismanagement.

As for double standards I suggest you put your own house in order before going on at the rest of the world. Stop harping on about liberty and freedom while torturing suspects before you start giving us the "poor me" speeches.

No one is happy to see AlQueda and the other fundies chopping peoples heads off except for other sick bastards like them but if America descends to their level how are you any better? Sure with the US's military might they might even win the war on international terror but what will you have lost along the way?

The really sad thing about people like you Bob is that you fail to see that some of the biggest speakers against this kind of thing speak out against it not because of a hatred of America but because we don't want to see your country make a mistake and end up paying a very high price because of it. Part of that is self interest of course. If America does become a tyranical state then the whole world will suffer but a large part of it comes from simply not wanting to see yet another country come under the shadow of fascism.

If you're wondering why no one points out every bad thing the terrorists do its because

1) No one gives a flying f**k if they manage to bugger up their own lives.
2) They're too far gone to help anyway.

[Bobboau]

well you see, your playing right into the hands of the facisti then, you don't say anything about them, but you pick at everything we do, it makes it seem like you can't be pleased so we stop careing what you have to say.
notice how we invaded Iraq, and nobody cared what the rest of the world had to say, I must say, well played.

[vyper]

Yes and look how well that went.

[karajorma]

So what are we supposed to do Bob? Stay silent and let your country fall into darkness? Do we need to hold your hand because your nation is too dumb to realise that we hate the terrorists too? Do we have to continually reassure you that we hate the ****ers too?

Apart from Rictor when have you ever heard anyone on this board support the terrorists? Almost every single comment that mentions them includes an insult and yet you still think that people here don't think of these people as evil scum?

Fact is you're not listening. Your country is too wrapped up in it's hatred to pay any attention to what is going on.

Do you really think that the British think it's acceptable to chop peoples heads off? Do you really believe that there is any popular support for that kind of behaviour?

No one says anything about the beheadings because it's common sense that it's wrong. The Brits haven't lost their perspective on these matters but it certainly appears as though you Americans have when intellegent people like yourself defend the use of torture and imprisonment of people who may not be (and in some cases definately were not) guilty of doing anything against your nation just on the off-chance that they might have been!. The Brits don't think the beheadings are justifiable. We simply don't think you can use a vile and sickening act as an excuse to commit vile and sickening acts of your own (And then on top of that still proclaim that you are better than them).


Seriously Bob, try to stay true to the ideals on which your country was founded. All men created equal, all men having certain rights. Those are good words and I find it very sad that for the second time  since WWII fear of a largely non-existant enemy has made the American people forget them completely as they run down a path that will never lead them to the security they want from it.


If you are willing to torture people then you are no better than the other side. And if you're no better than the other side why in hell should anyone outside of America give a damn who wins? It's that simple.

[Mongoose]

Hell, I'm about as right-wing as they come, and if this story is true, then I wholeheartedly disagree with what they're doing down there.  If these actions were unsanctioned by anyone, court-martial the hell out of those involved.  If they were sanctioned, then something much more serious needs to be done.  Either way, I think the inmates down there should be legally charged with a crime; either indict them or send them  back to where they came from.  Those who said that "they did **** to us, so we should be able to return the favor" isn't a just principle are absolutely right.  As much as I personally may have that reaction, and as much as I think it's perfectly human to feel that way, I know that isn't justice, and that doesn't represent the values that this country stands for.  "An eye for an eye" went out of style a long time ago.

[Scuddie]

Token "I don't care" message:
I don't see why you guys are acting like they're terrible people.  Sure it made your lives more difficult, but they also made their own lives better.  And they're a better people for doing what they believe in.

/salute

[Swamp_Thing]

Originally posted by Bobboau
from what I read that didn't sound like they were excuseing the person it sounded like they were describeing in detail what he did, I doubt you'd ever hear the phrase "pissing on him" an any offical document. when I read that I read "a gaurd pissed on an inmate through an air vent" I didn't for a minute think anything else untill you posted this.

Nor did i say they were, excusing the behaviour. What i did say, is that they must think we are all stupid to believe their explanation of what happened. I am not. If you choose to believe that somehow a soldier just happened to piss near a vent (don´t they have toilletes to do those things? What was he doing pissing 2 feet away from an inmate anyway?)), and that the urine "somehow" managed to get into the guy´s cell and splash both him and the Quran, then i´m sorry to say that you are too gulible.
It´s not about wether they excuse the behaviour or not ( they do), it´s about the ludychrist explanation they presented to us, the public. I have no doubt in my mind, that if this incident did happened (as the reports seem to suggest), it was a simple case of a guard pissing on the inmate on purpose, and the White House is spining it to look less damaging.

[Bobboau]

I haven't read any other sources on this so maybe I'm missing some key detail, but I don't see any explaining away in the exerp posted, it looks like it says in 'policy talk' that a gaurd pissed on a detainee. all I read is that one paragraph posted, so if it says somewere else that it was an accedent then the old ":wtf: yeah..."

[SuperCoolAl]

Do you think that if everyone wasn't so scared of America they would be doing this?

I think we can safely call them POWs when you yourselves call it a 'War on Terror'

I also despise the new UK terrorism legislation for the same reasons.

[redmenace]

On a side note...
http://reuters.myway.com/article/20050605/2005-06-05T150218Z_01_N05312827_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-RIGHTS-GUANTANAMO-AMNESTY-DC.html

[Taristin]

Originally posted by Bobboau
I haven't read any other sources on this so maybe I'm missing some key detail, but I don't see any explaining away in the exerp posted, it looks like it says in 'policy talk' that a gaurd pissed on a detainee. all I read is that one paragraph posted, so if it says somewere else that it was an accedent then the old ":wtf: yeah..."

I'm guessing the front grills of the holding cages can be called air vents, if you want to look at it that way.

[EtherShock]

I personally feel torture is inhumane and wrong, and that no one should be subject to it. I do believe the detainees at Guantanamo should have a fair trial. The problem lies in where they'd get a "fair" trial. You'd probably have to hold it in some Polynesian nation that has no idea about anything.

Also, punishing the ones that have committed the acts won't be enough. The ones that give out the orders should be held responsible as well. Unfortunately, I don't see that happening. The subordinates usually take all the heat. If you look at what our military is comprised of, the chance of them being stupid is extremely high.

There are a great deal of us that don't agree with the #*!% that's going on down there, but it seems nothing short of overthrowing the current adminstration will do anything.

*Hangs head in shame* I am ashamed of what my country has become.