[Swamp_Thing]

Vigilante groups are bad enough, but when you have them patroling the border to hunt mexicans, and then call themselfs Minutemen Project, that can´t be good.

Wetback hunting season is open. Apply on your local redneck office to join.


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8162019/

WASHINGTON - Volunteers in the civilian-led border watch group known as the “Minuteman Project” are called vigilantes, or worse, by their critics -- patriots or heroes by their supporters. Regardless of the moniker, the Minutemen have driven the issue of illegal immigration from the margins of America’s conscience onto the national stage.

PS: That´s one big gun that guy has there...
Somehow this reminds me of a flash game someone posted a while back, to see how many mex you can kill in each border crossing...

[Unknown Target]

EDIT: Read my next post (about 10 posts down).

[Rictor]

Actually, despite the bad press they're getting, they not doing anything wrong as far as I know (if ofcourse you believe in the importance of national sovreignty, I myself am somewhat ambigous on the subject). I checked out their website a while back, and as far as I can tell they have a pretty strict "do not engage, call for a real border guard" policy.

[Goober5000]

Rictor's got it right.  You guys should really do some research on the Minutemen before you criticize them.  They're not vigilantes; vigilantes, by definition, mete out justice according to their own standards, on their own terms.  These guys are simply serving as extra eyes and ears for the real Border Patrol guards.

[Swamp_Thing]

Then they don´t need a gun, do they? So why is that guy wearing a cannon? Why do they name themselfs after a nuclear weapon, designed to wipe out whole countries?
Why did they form a movement called Minutemen Civil Defense Corps? These are pretty beligerant names, don´t you think?
I guess you will only believe vigilantes are bad when the first corpses start popping out of the desert...

[Nuclear1]

Originally posted by Swamp_Thing
Then they don´t need a gun, do they? So why is that guy wearing a cannon? Why do they name themselfs after a nuclear weapon, designed to wipe out whole countries?
Why did they form a movement called Minutemen Civil Defense Corps? These are pretty beligerant names, don´t you think?
I guess you will only believe vigilantes are bad when the first corpses start popping out of the desert...

Ever heard of that little conflict called the American Revolution? This organization takes its name after the group of American colonists who were able to be called upon to fight for freedom at a moment's notice...

And these guys are doing a good job. They're not "racist hicks"--just people doing their civic duties and helping the thin-stretched Border Patrols.

[Goober5000]

Whoa, there, Swamp_Thing.  Calm down.  Let's take this one step at a time...

Originally posted by Swamp_Thing
Then they don´t need a gun, do they? So why is that guy wearing a cannon?

Probably for self-defense.  If an illegal immigrant decides to charge him instead of fleeing, he's going to need something to defend himself with.

The culture's rather different in that part of the country.  It's not uncommon to see people wearing guns while they go about their day-to-day lives.  So it's completely natural to bring their gun along with them on this project.

And that's not a particularly huge gun.  I've seen much bigger ones.

Why do they name themselfs after a nuclear weapon, designed to wipe out whole countries?

Um, no.  Where do you think the nuclear missile got its name?  They named themselves after the militia that defended the U.S. during the American Revolution.

Why did they form a movement called Minutemen Civil Defense Group?

They're assisting in the defense of the national borders.  Not defending the borders themselves, but helping those whose job it is to do so.

These are pretty beligerant names, don´t you think?

No, I don't.  Those names are quite tame.  Especially compared with some of the other political groups out there.

I guess you will only believe vigilantes are bad when the first corpses start popping out of the desert...

Again, they're not vigilantes.  And considering that they've been stationed on the border for months already, don't you think we would have heard about "corpses popping out of the desert" by now?

[Nuclear1]

Originally posted by Goober5000
Whoa, there, Swamp_Thing.  Calm down.  Let's take this one step at a time...Probably for self-defense.  If an illegal immigrant decides to charge him instead of fleeing, he's going to need something to defend himself with.

The culture's rather different in that part of the country.  It's not uncommon to see people wearing guns while they go about their day-to-day lives.  So it's completely natural to bring their gun along with them on this project.

And that's not a particularly huge gun.  I've seen much bigger ones.

Well, an additional reason would be that a gun has a little bit more stopping authority (not just by firing; sometimes just the sight of one in the hands of someone telling you to stop) than shouting does. It could keep the illegals in one place until the authorities arrive.

[Taristin]

Really, get the facts straight guys.
Immigration is a problem here. And the people coming in are coming in illegally. It's not about wether it's right or wrong to allow illegal immigrants into the nation. (That's what immigration refrom is for. If you dislike the policies, try tochange them, don't try to get around them). These people have not broken any laws. They've not caused any harm, neither.

America is in need of a lot of reforms. Illegal immigrants are stressing systems that were never designed to account for them. The minutemen are only temporarily fighting a symptom of a greater problem.

[Swamp_Thing]

Common, you know damn well that this is bound to get out of hand. Someday one of those guys is going to get carried away, he´s going to kill someone. Then pretty soon the other side starts fighting back on the same terms. And you end up with a blood bath. Just a week ago, there was an article on border incidents. Several people were killed in the last year, and the mexicans started bringing in guns themselfs. Now the place is a war zone, and you are bringing in a bunch of armed civilians into that burning pot? Stuff is bound to happen. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but some day you´ll reap what you sow. It´s always like that.

[deep_eyes]

well until this side of the world decides to "dismember" all borders, and create the American Union (IE Canada, USA, Mexico, Central America's, and some south american countries, especially COLUMBIA coke dude coke!), they should just build one big ass wall and keep em out.

u dont see any canadians runnin for the border as hard as other ethinicities do, mexicans to arabs to asias, to other south americans hit the border in the south HEAVY.

[Nuclear1]

Do you honestly believe that the civilian border patrol is made simply of redneck Texans who want to go out with a gun and blast Mexicans?

Them damn Mexicos! 'Member the Alamo!

Seriously, if anything, armed civilians at the border with government support would drive immigrants anyway, not signal to them to bring guns with them. And if shots are fired, then the Mexican government has its own problems to resolve (namely guarding their end of the border).

It's not all going to be an American's fault... just remember that kids.

Originally posted by deep_eyes
well until this side of the world decides to "dismember" all borders, and create the American Union (IE Canada, USA, Mexico, Central America's, and some south american countries, especially COLUMBIA coke dude coke!), they should just build one big ass wall and keep em out.

u dont see any canadians runnin for the border as hard as other ethinicities do, mexicans to arabs to asias, to other south americans hit the border in the south HEAVY.

Actually, we do have that kind of thing. There's the OAS (Organization of American States), and then there's NAFTA (thank you, President Clinton ).

And what reason do Canadians have to run to the US? Seriously, they're better off up there.

[deep_eyes]

Originally posted by nuclear1
Do you honestly believe that the civilian border patrol is made simply of redneck Texans who want to go out with a gun and blast Mexicans?

Them damn Mexicos! 'Member the Alamo!

Seriously, if anything, armed civilians at the border with government support would drive immigrants anyway, not signal to them to bring guns with them. And if shots are fired, then the Mexican government has its own problems to resolve (namely guarding their end of the border).

It's not all going to be an American's fault... just remember that kids.

well in terms of legality, if the mexicans do bring guns to the US border, and these minute men engage in a fire fight with em, the mexicans would actually be at fault from the begining because it is illegal in mexico to own a firearm if your not a law officer or federal officer/military.

unlike the us with the right to bear arms law, mexicans fundamentally wouldnt really attempt an armed crossing of the border knowing that if theyre picked up on the mexican side befor they reach the US, they'd be in tihauana prison in a heart beat, never to be seen again... then again getting bagged here with a gun, or killing a citizen (vigilante or not) will only make his own imprisonment "garunnnnnnteeeddddd". and the mexican president will be kissin bush's texas yella belly a-s-s for the remainder of bushes term.

[Unknown Target]

I stand corrected. From the title and the brief read I did, I thought that it was a bunch of "vigilante" groups that were killing everyone who crossed the border. My post has been corrected

And minutemen are...militia, I believe, from the American Revolution. The missile was named after them as well.

EDIT: What's ironic is that this is forming, even though Bush is practically making everyone who comes into the country a citizen nowadays (in terms of his laws).

[Ace]

Originally posted by nuclear1
...and then there's NAFTA (thank you, President Clinton ).)

*ahum* Give credit where it's due. NAFTA was Bush Numero Uno's.

[Nuclear1]

Ah... so it was

[Liberator]

Originally posted by Swamp_Thing
Someday one of those guys is going to get carried away, he´s going to kill someone.

You know, that same logic is used to suggest that letting soldier back into society is a bad idea.  The odds of someone who has been trained in the use, maintenance, and culture of firearms is one whole hell of a lot less likely to "get carried away" than the average yahoo who passes a background check and thinks he's hot stuff cause he can buy a pistol, that person is a lot more dangerous.

Also, if you'd done any research at all, you'd have know that the Minutemen are doing FBI class background checks on everyone that shows up.  If there is even a hint that they might have other intentions than patrolling the border and reporting incoming illegals to the Border Patrol, they are turned away.

The dangerous ones are the ACLU and their ilk who have made it their business to shadow the Minutemen and make their lives hell, not to mention endangering themselves and others by trying to force a confrontation.

[Bobboau]

I would also like to point out that, supriseingly, this issue weakens Bush politicaly especaly within his current power block.

[Swamp_Thing]

Lets look at some figures, shall we?

Acording to the US border patrol:
The first number is for 2004, the second number is for the first 5?months of 2005:

Rock throwing                 77   95
Physical assaults             21   20
Vehicle rammings             9    26
Shootings                        9    20
Other assaults                 2    2
Total:                            118   163

Notice the huge discrepance in number of shootings. In 2004 (before the minutemen) , you had 9 incidents. In 2005, in a few months alone, you have over 200% more. Makes you wonder, doesn´t it?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7997408/

Now let´s look at how effective they are:

What is known is that volunteers are unwittingly setting off motion detector sensors along the border.  These sensors, hidden along major pathways, send alarms back to a Border Patrol command center.  Each time a sensor goes off, agents are dispatched to investigate.

Agents responding to those false alarms are taken away from their routine patrols, Border Patrol Supervisory Agent Jose Maheda told the Associated Press.  “It’s taken away from our normal operations,” he said.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7409293/page/3/

So, not only their presence is spurring more violence, they are actually hurting the US Border patrol, by setting off false alarms...

[Bobboau]

why are you, and it seems only you, so incredably pissed about this?