[aldo_14]

Originally posted by vyper
Charming.

Old el Paso makes dinners exciting!

[vyper]

Originally posted by Nico
The bad thing about it is that it happened while security was, I assume, on full alert because of the recent bombing, which shows that no matter what you do, if someone wants to blow up something, he can, no matter how many policemen and others you'll deploy...

That's because it's not a matter of policing, it's a matter of intelligence - and I mean real hard work (not throwing ID cards on everyone and installing the telescreens!). Unfortunately the current funding and strategy go towards high visibility policing and near-fascist law making, to say nothing of even higher visibility warfare on a distant front.

In other words, we were bombed because the security forces (civiland military) are being used as a smoke screen for our government complete and utter ineptitude in handling the threat we face.

Terrorism leads to failure, but only if the subject of that terrorism stands strong in their beliefs, their ideals and their values. We stand for freedom, democracy and self determination.

What are we if we surrender even a fraction of that?
What are we fighting for if we don't have these things in full?
How are we different from the enemy - if we become exactly what we hate?

[Bobboau]

you could always go American on there asses and play loud noises while there trying to sleep, or mishandle there holy book.

[aldo_14]

An open society is always vunerable; freedom is never free, but the alternative is worse.

To be fair, it's hard to know what the security services could have done (not with respect to inflammatory government policy, which has totally failed to address the root causes of terrorism in a meaningful or beneficial way).  You, me, anyone here could probably organize and perform an attack if we so wished; simply because we don't live (yet?) in a totalitarian state.

 "Those who would sacrifice a little Liberty for more Safety deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - it's still the most appropriate, valid quote you can use.

[Sandwich]

I think this incident is extremely interesting. I'm very curious as to who is found to be responsible, why all 4 bombs failed, etc.

[Rictor]

Since it happened exactly 2 weeks after the first bombings, at almost the exact same time of day, with exactly the same targets, I would think it's some ****er trying to piggyback on the emotional effect of the first bombings, because that's all they can do - they can't even properly kill people, which is a somewhat crucial component of being a terrorist.

"Hey Joe, does damn Londoners sure got screwed. Let's build ourselves a bomb and do the same"

The sheer fact that the date and implementation were significant distinguished these bombings from previous ones (9/11, Madrid, Bali, Nairobi embassy etc) which happened on non-significant dates. That is to say, these were for image while the real ones were for practical utility.

[Kie99]

I don't think 9/11 was an insignificant date.

9/11 = 911 = Emergency Number

[Rictor]

Not in other countries it isn't. It was also the date on which the US sponsored a coup in Chile and installed Pinochet, but as far as I know the 9/11 attacks were not carried out by Chileans or anyone with explicit sympathy towards them. What I mean is that the date was insignificant in regards to the ideological mindset of the people who perpetrated it (assuming you believe it was al Queda and not someone else)

[Bobboau]

wasn't that the aneversery of the Oslo Isreal failed peace thingy?

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Rictor
Since it happened exactly 2 weeks after the first bombings, at almost the exact same time of day, with exactly the same targets, I would think it's some ****er trying to piggyback on the emotional effect of the first bombings, because that's all they can do - they can't even properly kill people, which is a somewhat crucial component of being a terrorist.

"Hey Joe, does damn Londoners sure got screwed. Let's build ourselves a bomb and do the same"

The sheer fact that the date and implementation were significant distinguished these bombings from previous ones (9/11, Madrid, Bali, Nairobi embassy etc) which happened on non-significant dates. That is to say, these were for image while the real ones were for practical utility.

I dunno; what would be more effective in terrorism terms - 2 attacks seperated by months, or by 2 weeks.  To me the latter would be more effective in spreading panic, especially as the first set of attacks singularily failed to panic people.

[Martinus]

[color=66ff00]The thing that bothers me is that something like a small fertilizer bomb is both easy to make and that the materials are easy to get.

They're also pretty reliable from what I know unless you do something remarkably stupid and use the wrong kind of fertilizer.

Either way this affair reeks of incompetence which is not what these guys are known for.
[/color]

[aldo_14]

We'll probably find out once the bombs are analysed; although that wouldn't rule out some group just nicking the previous attackers (degraded) spare bombs, I guess.

[karajorma]

Police just shot some guy 5 times at Stockwell tube station.

Sounds like they may have caught one of them.

Apparently they've also surrounded a mosque in East London too. They may have wind of another one too then.

[vyper]

FIVE times. I mean - you have a man on the ground, about four cops on top of him - FIVE TIMES? I want to hear the full story hear - and I don't want Tony Blair telling us we shouldn't know for our own good.

As an aside any link about that mosque thing?

[karajorma]

Seems like the mosque was due to a suspect package which turned out to be a false alarm and they've lefted the cordon.

As for shooting the guy, seems like the smartest thing to do if the guy was a suicide bomber. The BBC site now says that an eyewitness reports that they guy had a bomb on him.

I do want to hear the full story too though.

[Martinus]

[color=66ff00]He ran onto a packed train after they warned him did he not?

Assuming he was carrying explosives I'd want to make sure he couldn't arm/detonate when cornered.

Still, they should state what happened if only to stop needless speculation and criticism (assuming it's not warranted of course).
[/color]

[Flipside]

Whoever it was, it's confirmed that they were NOT one of yesterdays bombers, apparently.

[vyper]

Plus we pay their god damned wages, and we elect half of them - and we're fairly intelligent adults who deserve the truth rather than what they think we can handle. From the 7th July every bit of news we've had has been spoon fed to us from Downing Street or the Met. No investigative journalism whatsoever.

[Flipside]

That's concerned me as well Vyper, apparently, someone was shot in Canary Wharf as well on July 7th, but for some reason nothing more was said about it after the first couple of reports.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Flipside
That's concerned me as well Vyper, apparently, someone was shot in Canary Wharf as well on July 7th, but for some reason nothing more was said about it after the first couple of reports.

I know someone from uni who works in Canary Wharf; and I'm pretty sure I'd have heard on the grapevine if that particular story was true.