[Nico]

hem, then the GTVA couldn't use it too, could as well collapse the node then...
Anyway, I think that technically the ships that comes out fr'om a node all goes in the same direction after all, it's just a kind of tunnel exit. So making a "Mjolnir tunnel" next to the node should work.

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venom2506
Member of the Robotech mod for FS2

and of Hidden Terror, the Shivan campaign

and My own page

[Sushi]

If you can enter a node from any direction, and you can, you can exit a node from any direction. I personally think that you exit in the same absolute spatial orientation you enter, so if you're facing the center of the galaxy as you go in you face the center of the galaxy as you come out. This would explain why ships coming from the same place exit the same way- it's not random. But exit direction can be controlled.

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Sushi- the OTHER white meat!
Accelerate your game-Velocity Mod
Sushi's Freespace Zone-Future home of loads of cool stuff.

[Nico]

Well, I think we can enter from any direction for only a single reason: because otherwise it would be **** to jump out, to make missions and so on. it's just a question of game play. look at Xwing alliance. In all previous games, the fighter had to point where it was supposed to go before entering hyperspace. So you could die while it was doing that (and in these games, it's easy to die). And in the movie, Ian Solo says cleraly that it must be very accurate if you don't want to hit "a super nova". In XWA, all that is gone. you can enter in hypersapce from any direction. Just because of gameplay. Well, that's the same thing with Freespace I think, and Nodes are holes in reality, so there must be a side where you have to enter.

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venom2506
Member of the Robotech mod for FS2

and of Hidden Terror, the Shivan campaign

and My own page

[Setekh]

I'm surprised we haven't got a 'node blocker' in FS2 yet, a la the IW1 intro. That would be pretty neat.  

[wEvil]

RBC are pretty damn expensive, which is why they aren't in wider deployment.

the cage idea is a good one, but who could afford to basically surround a node with a bunch of hydrogen Peta-electron-volt particle accelerators?

[Falcon X]

 

Originally posted by Sushi:
Nobody is doubting that the smaller ships will lose to heavier ships more often. The question is, for the same amount of GTVA time & money, would it be better to have one Colossus or twenty Corvettes? I vote the latter. Or, for the same cost, you could have hundreds of fighters and bombers. Either way, smaller wins.

As for historic battles, remember that in WW2, fighters/bombers sunk a pretty respectable number of ships.

Would you prefer 10 firgates or a battleship/heavy cruiser?  I'd take the battleship.  How about this, remember how easily the corvettes got wiped by the Destroyer?  All corvettes are is cannon fodder.  You need to have a bigger class of ships to trump the other guy's huge ship.

Just remember how easily smaller ships get waxed.  When they go, so do does their guns.  But with a larger ship, it takes a lot more to destroy them.

Way you're talking, we wouldn't have built battleships or cruisers, just have tons of destroyers.  That's what China has and they don't pose a threat to us.

Yes the smaller would win, but at a greater cost and greater risk.  Imagine the number of lives you are talking about, not just cost.  Also, the bigger the ship, the bigger the guns.  And the bigger the ship the more fighters it can hold.

My money is that compared to cap ships, fighters are incredibly cheap.

Yes in WWII many ships were sunk by fighters, but air power is better, but you need big ships to carry those planes and big ships to guard those ships.  Because what happens if your planes get waxed and you don't have big ships and the enemy does?

Oh and the turpitz was a sitting duck.  And the shot on the Bismark was a lucky shot.

[Jabu]

I wouldn't really compare WWII fighters to FS fighters. FS fighters can do very little damage to large ships, whereas the WWII fighters had some offensive power.

Bombers are a different matter.

[Sushi]

Alright, time to defend my positions...  

Star Wars physics and FS physics work differently. The way I see it, jump nodes are essentially the same point in real space existing in two places at once. The subspace nodes are where reality folds in on itself.
Subspace just allows you to cross the fold. Star Wars just involves faster-than-light travel, nothing like FS's model.

Imagine the way two spheres overlap. Where they overlap would be the node, the skin of the sphere 3D space.


Now, back to to the large vs. small debate:

I'd still take the 10 frigates- but I would have to attack your battleship with all of them at once. The large ship works best by cornering the small ones individually, where they are no match. However, if the smaller ships stay together, they can put up quite a fight, and if they get seriously damaged, they can retreat without giving up the fight completely. Yes, the big guy will usually win in an all-out grudge match, but the smaller ships will win if they are careful and patient. You all know that with enough time and patience, you could single handedly take out any capship in the game with a single bomber. You've probably even done it.  

Anyways, the big ship will win in the classic showdown-battle, but in the long run, smaller ships make much more sense.


Finally, WW2 fighters are the closest comparison with FS2 fighters really availible. The only flaw is that there weren't really any light bombers in WW2, mostly just big fat ones. And when I say FS fighters, I include bombers in that category.

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Sushi- the OTHER white meat!
Accelerate your game-Velocity Mod
Sushi's Freespace Zone-Future home of loads of cool stuff.

[Shrike]

The biggest advantage air power has over naval power is speed and mobility.  In space, that's mostly nullified.  Capships with Big Guns are the way to go.  You can splash bombers easily with fighters, but even a cruiser like the Aeolus takes some killing.

[morris13]

Another advantage that fighters and bombers have is in speed of construction. A new fighter can roll off the assembly line in a couple months, or less, but a capital ship, especially a large one, requires a huge investment of time not only in construction but also in crew training. Additionally, because of the shorter construction time fighters and bombers can take advantage of new technology much more rapidly. Mounting a new weapons system on an old fighter can be accomplished incredibly quickly, but refitting weapons on a capitol ship requires weeks, if not months in drydock.
Finally, the problem with capitol ships is that it can only be in one place. If you have a choice between a cruiser or ten fighters, that cruiser can only be in one spot, which may be right in front of a BFRed =P Those ten fighters can undertake a much more flexible array of tasks and missions. You don't really need a cruiser to scout an asteroid field, and you don't want to have that much investment in material jumping through an uncharted node to see what's on the other side.
It all depends on what you need done and how soon. There's no one solution to all problems =)

[wEvil]

on the other hand, fighters are nullified over a distance because the amount of deuterium/He3 fuel they can carry must be very limited.

I would imagine capships would be back to flying fueltanks considering the amount of energy the weapons and shields eat up.

[Griffon UK]

 

Originally posted by morris13:
What determines what direction a ship comes out of a node in?

i think the orientation for the transition is simple, the way you enter is the way you emerge...  Once in the conduit, you can manuever...  once you make the exit jump, the same rules apply...

 

Originally posted by Sushi:
Here's one thing about FS2 that bugs me: Why do ships ever travel by anything other than Subspace? For example, in High Noon, why didn't the Colossus just go do a really short intrasystem jump to right behind the Sathanas? Why do ships always have to crawl the last 10000 meters to a node, instead of just jumping to it?

the drives have to charge...  the larger the ship, the more power needed to vibrate the ship at the right frequency to force the warp-hole open...

if a ship did an intrasystem jump to the node, it would suck the juice from the motivator and would be stranded at the node until it recharged...  at least when a ship is moving it is more tactically-able than if it was stationary...

if say, the Aquitaine jumped to the node in Argonautica, it would be stranded at the node...

lets also assume that to overcharge the motivator to make an emergency jump would take even more energy...  
that probably means taking beams, plasma turrets & flak offline, and if the ship is extremely large, say, in the Aquitaines case, a Hecate, life-support & other serious systems may also be dropped...

its not damn worth it  

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Temporal Mechanics

[morris13]

That's what you need good recon for. Instead of having the C jump in, and then not be able to jump to a better position behind the Sathanas, get good co-ordinates from your sentry vessels or fighters and have the C come in behind the Sathanas in the first place.

[wEvil]

then your heavy strike force would already have to be in-system.

there is only one way in and out of interstellar subspace - the jump nodes.

Unless you happen to be shivan or Ancient.

[Sushi]

All right, Griffon, I'll buy that.  

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Sushi- the OTHER white meat!

Accelerate your game-Velocity Mod
Sushi's Freespace Zone-Future home of loads of cool stuff.

[Nico]

Lol, I've read in the database (FS1 ot 2, don't remember), that only fighters can do intrasystem jumps, the capships can't because they need more gravitational nergy or something like this, and that is obnly provided by nodes. I don't remeber quite well, but the important fact is that capships can't do that, here is your answer  

[Sushi]

What are you talking about? Capships can do intrasystem. Nearly every FS and FS2 mission involves a capship doing an intrasystem jump.

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Sushi- the OTHER white meat!

Accelerate your game-Velocity Mod
Sushi's Freespace Zone-Future home of loads of cool stuff.

[Nico]

I said what I've read. they can't make jumps without a jumpnode, if you don't believe me, just check in the game

[wEvil]

Fighters are limited to using jump nodes for inter-system jumps as well.

Anything can make an intra-system jump as a gravity well stretches spacetime allowing a ship to drop into subspace more easily.

The only way to make an inter-system jump without a node is to create one (somehow) or stabilise a micro-node (unstable node) with a knossos device.

[YodaSean]

It wouldn't be too hard to defeat if someone constructed a homing meson bomb.

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