[Martinus]

I can think of a potentially viable method of destroying Sathanas sized ships. Mjolnirs are a reasonably sound concept but the method of deployment and design have flaws, when they are deployed around the circumference of the node "event horizon" (can't think of a better description) they have a higher chance of hitting incoming ships but if the ship moves at high velocity out of the node the guns have little time to fire upon the target. The amount of damage they could do to a sathanas is pretty low not to mention that they are basically sitting ducks if they don't destroy the target before it leaves their firing range.

A better solution would be a space station with a concentrated beam array directly pointing into the node, the array would have enough firepower to at least render enough damage for bombers or larger ships to finish it off. Since it fires directly into the exit point of the node a large ship would take a considerable amount of time to maneuver out of the firing path.
It would act as sentry and be a strategic refueling point for ships entering and leaving the system. Also there would be fighter support without the need for a carrier or destroyer.

So to sum up you've got:
Strategic launching/resupplying/refuelling point for ships.
Sentry protecting said system from potential invasion by large hostiles.
Reasonably self sufficient base of operations.
Considerable working lifetime.  

Can anyone think of any flaws, there's always something.

Sorry to go a little off topic but I was interested in wheter or not you guys thought the idea was viable.

[This message has been edited by Maeglamor (edited 05-11-2001).]

[morris13]

Here's something I always wondered about node defense. What determines what direction a ship comes out of a node in? do ships coming through a node always come out on the same vector, or do they keep the same vector they had when they went through the node on the other side? If nodes are linear, you can only come out of them in one direction, It seems to me that the best defense would be to put a barrier minefield with some mjolnirs in front of the exit path, and a beam station behind the node so its firing on the rear of the ship. Ships coming through the node would have to stop or get fragged by the mines, and while they were manouvering out of the minefield the Mjolnirs and station would have plenty of time to toast whatever it is. Putting the station behind the node instead of in front if it also keeps the station safer from heavy enemy fire.

[Martinus]

Good point but I wouldn't like to speculate what effect firing into the event horizon of the node would have, bear in mind that you might not actually be hitting the back end of the ship but the node exit as the ship is leaving.

I think  

[QXMX]

I think that everyone the most important thing to remember here is that the Shivans outnumber the GTVA by who knows how much.  Better tactics is the way to go, but in a pinch, something with powerful weaponery and armor could mean the difference between victory and defeat.

The GTVA should keep engagements with the Shivans to an absolute minimum, if possible.  And more small covert ops forces to find their weaknesses and (possibly) origins  

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Co-Creator, Project Omega18

[Nico]

Yeah! And for 80 Sathanas, you need 2400 bombers! There's something wrong here... Shivan are building their fleet for at least 8000 years now... Even with huge tech improvments, I think the GTVA is doomed if the shivan decided to really wipe it out (they had sent the sathanas fleet, that was enough... Well 10 sathanas plus a ravana escort would be enough in fact...

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venom2506
Member of the Robotech mod for FS2

and of Hidden Terror, the Shivan campaign

and My own page

[wEvil]

i seriously don't beleive the sathanas is the final word in shivan superdestroyers.

It's just got too many flaws.  Sure it's lethal from the front but a couple of orions and covettes appearing behind it with a fighter escort to neutralise bombers and cruisers would really give it a what-for.

To think of the size of the colossus...where does the GTVA obtain raw materials?

asteroids shunted into orbit and mined out as biosphere caverns?

if so, the colossus alone would have "eaten" at least 3-6 asteroids' worth or material.

[QXMX]

 

Originally posted by wEvil:
i seriously don't beleive the sathanas is the final word in shivan superdestroyers.

It's just got too many flaws.  Sure it's lethal from the front but a couple of orions and covettes appearing behind it with a fighter escort to neutralise bombers and cruisers would really give it a what-for.

To think of the size of the colossus...where does the GTVA obtain raw materials?

asteroids shunted into orbit and mined out as biosphere caverns?

if so, the colossus alone would have "eaten" at least 3-6 asteroids' worth or material.

Speaking on a galactic scale, that's less than chicken feed  


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Co-Creator, Project Omega18

[Sushi]

I think node exit direction is the same as node enter direction, as if the nodes were the same point in space. Simplest explanation.  


Here's one thing about FS2 that bugs me: Why do ships ever travel by anything other than Subspace? For example, in High Noon, why didn't the Colossus just go do a really short intrasystem jump to right behind the Sathanas? Why do ships always have to crawl the last 10000 meters to a node, instead of just jumping to it?

As for what the GTVA needs, I agree, more light corvettes would be perfect. Especially fast ones, that can outmanouver other Capships easily- if the Shivans can't point their primary beams at you because you're always behind them, they're messed.

Developing a good Meson Warhead wouldn't hurt either...can you say Nuclear Cruise Missile?  

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Sushi- the OTHER white meat!
Accelerate your game-Velocity Mod
Sushi's Freespace Zone-Future home of loads of cool stuff.

[Nico]

Put some meson bombs near each jump nodes. If shivan comes out: BOUM!

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venom2506
Member of the Robotech mod for FS2

and of Hidden Terror, the Shivan campaign

and My own page

[Falcon X]

Yes, I'm actually going to post!  *gasp*  

I highly disagree with the idea of having more smaller ships.  Think of it this way.  Smaller ships may have a bit more firepower, more manueverable, but they are weak in defense compared to the "super" ship.  

Let's look in our own history for examples, shall we?  The Hood & The Prince of Wales vs. The Bismark.  The Hood was a Battlecruiser by definition.  She sacraficed deck armor for speed and maneuverability, but she got taken out easily.  Her guns were about the same power as the Bismark's, but here armor sucked.  

That's like sending two Orions or Hecates vs 1 Colossus.  The Colossus would destroy the other ships, while taking damage, heavy most likely, but she would live to fight again.  Why?  If she targeted all of her guns on 1 ship, she could destroy it, and vastly improve her odds.  You guys just think more guns are better, but they aren't.  You're ship that holds the guns, must be able to survive.

Basically, you need a Capital ship in a fleet, or it's pathetic.  Would a fleet comprised of mainly Frigates attack a fleet with only a handful of Ships of the Line and the same number of frigates?

But the other thing you must have is balance.  You cannot have a fleet comprised of all Destroyers or all super ships, you must have a combined group.  Just like a pyramid, more weaker ships, fewer stronger ships.  Look at a modern task force and you'll see what I'm talking about.

So you should have a couple fleets comprised of 1-2 Collosi, 4 Destroyers, 6-8 Corvettes, and then cruisers.  The thing FS lacked was FLEET engagements.  It had ship to ship, but never massive battles, and that is usually what occurs.

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"I am about to drop the hammer and dispense some indiscriminant justice!" -Starcraft

"First rule of government spending, why build one for the price of one, when you can have two for twice the price." - S.R. Hadden (Contact)

[Nico]

I agrre with you, and I would live fleet battles, the pb is that FS handles only about 70 ships, and that is wrong  

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venom2506
Member of the Robotech mod for FS2

and of Hidden Terror, the Shivan campaign

and My own page

[Sushi]

Nobody is doubting that the smaller ships will lose to heavier ships more often. The question is, for the same amount of GTVA time & money, would it be better to have one Colossus or twenty Corvettes? I vote the latter. Or, for the same cost, you could have hundreds of fighters and bombers. Either way, smaller wins.

As for historic battles, remember that in WW2, fighters/bombers sunk a pretty respectable number of ships.

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Sushi- the OTHER white meat!
Accelerate your game-Velocity Mod
Sushi's Freespace Zone-Future home of loads of cool stuff.

[Shrike]

also.....would you want to write the thousands of letters to spouses, parents and family when a couple corvettes go up, from an engagement the Colossus would have easily survived?  There's a human cost too.

[Styxx]

Make them radio-controlled.  

[Fury]

Gah, put a Duracel into a cap ship and it lasts, lasts and lasts...  

[Jabu]

Didn't the Duracell bunny get sued in America? By the Energizer bunny?

[Martinus]

Yes and the legal proceedings went on and on and on...

*Maeglamor dodges a quick left hook from the rest of the posters on this thread*

[aldo_14]

RE: Mjolnirs

Maybe if you had a set of RBCs' surrounding the node, pointing AWAY from it, and focused at some point in the distance from the exit, maybe you could hit the nose first, and cut right down the sides as it moved forwards, cutting any capship to shreds.  With enough RBC's, you would have a kind of 'cage' effect, so even if a ship moved away form the 'focus' popint, it would still have to go through a beam (and get hit).    

[Sushi]

That could work, Aldo, but only if you know the direction the enemy will exit, and I don't think there is any way to determine that for sure, unless it's Knossos-controlled.

I agree that the best way to defend a node is to put a powerful space station nearby, with lots of fighters.

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Sushi- the OTHER white meat!
Accelerate your game-Velocity Mod
Sushi's Freespace Zone-Future home of loads of cool stuff.

[Snipes]

nah... just build a cage like thingy around the entire node, when they warp in, they die, real simple.

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