[Kosh]

And no, I'm not 'happy' that we have police with assault rifles or SMGs roaming the streets, it's not really ideal, but for the time being, that is how things must be.

And so shooting people on sight ISN'T terrorizing the populace?

[Fineus]

It should really go without saying that they had the guy pinned and still felt the need to unload five shots directly into the head. Now I'm no surgeon but I'm fairly sure that one would do the job - a second if you really had to be sure. It's not like we're talking body armor or bullet range here.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Kalfireth
It should really go without saying that they had the guy pinned and still felt the need to unload five shots directly into the head. Now I'm no surgeon but I'm fairly sure that one would do the job - a second if you really had to be sure. It's not like we're talking body armor or bullet range here.

I'm not sure a shot to the head is necessarily fatal; I think there have been documented cases where people have survived one.  5 does seem to be overkill, but then that would be the point in a real scenario.

The one thing that makes me think this could have been a bad shoot, is that it was plain clothes armed officers.  That to me raises a bit of a problem, as it *could* explain why he ran, if his grasp of english was poor enough to not understand any initial warning.

I think the shoot-to-kill policy is the only way you can handle suicide bombers, but they should try and restrict armed officers to be fully uniformed.  Whether or not that's actually possible, I'm not sure; if this guy had been a bomber, then there wouldn't have been adequate deployment time (I'm assuming the police officers who shot him were part of the undercover surveillance team observing the house he left).

[Bobboau]

you'r makeing judgements about a situation were you realy don't know all the facts, for all you know five cops shot him at the same time.

[pyro-manic]

I'm not going to jump to conclusions over the shooting - the facts will come out in the inquiry - but I will say that it's the government's fault at least as much as the police who were involved. We're on the slippery slope, and accelerating....

[Fineus]

Out of interest... has anyone thought about bomb/metal detectors built into the walls of major stations? Lets put it this way... on a busy day in London it'll take you at least a minute or two to get from the entrance to a subway station to the actual platform itself. That may not be plenty of time - but it's some time at least. It beats the notion of ununiformed armed police running around the place.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by Kalfireth
Out of interest... has anyone thought about bomb/metal detectors built into the walls of major stations? Lets put it this way... on a busy day in London it'll take you at least a minute or two to get from the entrance to a subway station to the actual platform itself. That may not be plenty of time - but it's some time at least. It beats the notion of ununiformed armed police running around the place.

It's been proposed by the Met, but the current technological level of detectors means that not only would you get a massive amount of false positives, I think you'd also be giving out a substantial does of radiation in turning them high enough to detect across a large area.

Qinetiq (IIRC) has also proposed a system that uses CCTV and movement tracking to detect likely bombers; they're trying to sell it to the Israelis as well.  But it would strike me as - aside from inherent intrusiveness - being both unreliable and somewhat useless in a large crowded area where movement is affected by congestion.

NB: Bob; the witness statement is pretty clear that a single officer, armed with an automatic pistol, shot 5 times point blank; http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4706913.stm

[IPAndrews]

The way the police ruthlessly executed this poor guy was really quite chilling. Seemingly for no other reason than he looked foreign. He wasn't even from the right continent to be a terrorist. Even worse it's almost as if the police are pleased with what happened because it demonstrates their shoot to kill policy to would be terrorists. The police are a law unto themselves these days.

[karajorma]

Originally posted by IPAndrews
Seemingly for no other reason than he looked foreign.

He doesn't actually look that foreign. Take a look for yourselves.

[vyper]

Which makes it more alarming. They're shooting anyone.

[pyro-manic]

Originally posted by Kalfireth
Out of interest... has anyone thought about bomb/metal detectors built into the walls of major stations? Lets put it this way... on a busy day in London it'll take you at least a minute or two to get from the entrance to a subway station to the actual platform itself. That may not be plenty of time - but it's some time at least. It beats the notion of ununiformed armed police running around the place.

At this point, sniffer dogs are probably a better idea. I think that guards should be re-introduced to stations as well.

I also think that police should have less-than-lethal weapons for use in situations like this. Something that will cause extreme pain and/or instant paralysis, but that won't kill the target.

[Bobboau]

but would probly give them time to detonate there bomb, yeah, great idea.

[karajorma]

Not to mention the fact that shooting a suicide bomber with a taser is likely to be the last thing you ever do.

[aldo_14]

Originally posted by pyro-manic


At this point, sniffer dogs are probably a better idea. I think that guards should be re-introduced to stations as well.

I also think that police should have less-than-lethal weapons for use in situations like this. Something that will cause extreme pain and/or instant paralysis, but that won't kill the target.

AFAIK there's not an instant paralysis weapon (most likely some form of toxin, I reckon) that wouldn't be fatal as well.

[vyper]

You know we've never given the police a shoot-to-kill policy in this country before, and when we do... oh look, an man dies for doing nothing more than being afraid of the police. Hell, I am afraid of the police and I'm an honest citizen whose biggest crime is probably downloading the Aerosmith Gold album as a torrent.

[Styxx]

A Brazilian, surprisingly enough. If the cops were on plain clothes, he was right to run away - how can you know if they're actual cops? I'd probably do the same, and end up getting shot for it too. England is right off my travel plans until I hear an official apology and an announcement that proper measures are being taken to prevent this from happening again.

[Taristin]

Like you Brazillians are to be completely trusted.

/me runs from Styxx.

[Fractux]

I don't know if anyone can be blamed in this horrible situation. It seems like so many elements came together to create the outcome of this situation.

Is it right that he was killed, no of course not. But can you blame the police? Or can you blame the guy for running? I guess we won't know until the details come out.

I mean, it's a sad case, and maybe the only good to come of it will be that the need for as much restraint as possible when it come to taking drastic action.

However, you can plainly see how hard a job police forces have. What decision do you make on  a whim?

You need to respond to the situation as you experience it. You have to make a decision on a dime, and people could die. What's the right choice? What's the wrong one? If the guy had been carrying a bomb, then people would have been saved. Now he wasn't, and a horrible mistake was made and now people have to live with the consequences. These kinds of decisions are made every day, both right and wrong.

I'm not saying we should accept wrong decisions, but we can't be so quick to lash out when horrible mistakes are made in situations that are so complex.

People try to do their best every day, and we can only hope that they make the best decisions they can in any given situation.

[Solatar]

Based on what I've seen/read so far:

To the guy that got shot, probably looked like he was about to get gang-raped by a bunch of armed thugs...

To the cops, looked like he was running from the law.

[WMCoolmon]

So they were plain-cothes police officers?