[Turnsky]

Originally posted by Deepblue


Gameplay, story, and multi-play wise, yes.

and, albiet on console, graphically, best post-prod effects ever seen, and used.. *nods*

[Fineus]

Shame it's not out on the PC then

[Turnsky]

Originally posted by Kalfireth
Shame it's not out on the PC then

point well made

oh, i gave garry's mod a go.. tried to recreate the mythbusters "ming dynasty astronaut" using Breen and a thruster laden chair...

[Nico]

Originally posted by ZylonBane
You're either a liar, or terminally unobservant. Doom 3 plays quite differently than the originals.

Do I need to reply to that? Yes, I guess ~~
How so? If you mean you have to go slower and ****, it's the same, just try the original doom in the higher difficulties, w/o the god mode (heh), and come tell me if you're  going for mass, instant frag... And since there's twice the amount of difficulty levels in doom2 than doom3, I assume they just got rid of the easier ones.
And if you were referring to the fact they added jump and stuff, I'll just ignore you, or reply "yeah and they should have kept it 2D".

-

Halo2 is cool, but I got much more of a kick with Return to Castle Wolfeinstein Now this one was a good FPS.

[ZylonBane]

The difference between classic Doom and Doom 3 is that the original games are about running around large, well-lit areas blasting dozens of monsters at a time, while D3 is about creeping through tight, poorly-lit areas blasting usually two or three monsters at a time.

Thank god for Serious Sam. Now that's a true spiritual sequel to Doom.

[BlackDove]

To Duke Nukem.

[Fineus]

Zylon, did it ever occur to you that the games were about more than the basic gameplay forumla.. they were about style as well? Back in the days of Doom it would've been much much harder to create a game with Doom 3 style gameplay. Now it seems ID wanted to go with something that was technologically sound enough to put over a truly dark, claustrophobic experience that would be much more effective at transporting a player to "hell" than the nice bright colours and lush green fields of Serious Sam.

Fact is, you don't like the playing style. But that doesn't mean that Doom 3 failed to deliver entirely. It just didn't deliver to you.

[Nico]

Originally posted by ZylonBane
The difference between classic Doom and Doom 3 is that the original games are about running around large, well-lit areas blasting dozens of monsters at a time, while D3 is about creeping through tight, poorly-lit areas blasting usually two or three monsters at a time.

Thank god for Serious Sam. Now that's a true spiritual sequel to Doom.

I give you the large open areas (tho, to be honest, I believe it's because of Doom3 engine, as good as they want us to think it is, I'm sure it'd be crappy for that kind of playgrounds), but Doom had its share of cramped, very dark levels (I especially remember one, where you go in front of a door, you expect it to open, but no, the ground lowers under your feet and you end up in a maze w/o any lightning save for blinking lights, full of invisible pinkies, flying skulls and other damn mobs... mmh, I think it was Doom2, not Doom).

[CP5670]

Yeah, the gameplay for the first two Dooms was completely different than the third game; as ZB said, the Serious Sam games are much closer to Doom 1 and 2 than Doom 3 is. I don't necessarily prefer one type over the other as they are both fun in their own ways, but most modern games are closer to the Doom 3 variety.

[ZylonBane]

Originally posted by Kalfireth
Now it seems ID wanted to go with something that was technologically sound enough to put over a truly dark, claustrophobic experience that would be much more effective at transporting a player to "hell" than the nice bright colours and lush green fields of Serious Sam.

I really don't see what point you're trying to make here. I'm saying that Doom 3 doesn't play like its predecessors, and you appear to be agreeing with me. Whether or not I like this style is irrelevent. I'm simply squashing another wave of the stupid "But it plays just like the originals!!!!!" defense.

Originally posted by Nico
..Doom had its share of cramped, very dark levels...

Yes, it did. But they were the exception, not the rule.

[Nico]

w00ps, quote instead of edit.

[Nico]

Originally posted by ZylonBane
I really don't see what point you're trying to make here. I'm saying that Doom 3 doesn't play like its predecessors, and you appear to be agreeing with me. Whether or not I like this style is irrelevent. I'm simply squashing another wave of the stupid "But it plays just like the originals!!!!!" defense.
 

Which is exactly what I didn't say originally, but since you jumped on that argument right away, I was stupid enough to follow that point

So ok, let's forget about the tiny evolutions of gameplay, or you'll **** around with the player being able to talk to a couple NPC, or spiderbots following you, and read my original post again: Doom= gloomy and violent.
It is not about puzzles, it is not crazy vehicle action over a whole level, it is not about funky gameplay innovations, it is about going forward in gloomy complex fighting creatures out of hell (and it has to be on Mars, according to purists) by finding the equivalents of the greebn, blue and red keys. Sure the gameplay is different, you have less monsters, it's 100% closed space etc, but that's merely an evolution - at the same time allowed by advancements in technology (prettyness) and limited by technology (prettyness= no large waves of monsters in stadium-sized open areas) - I really don't see that as betraying the original.
But why are we arguing about that anyway (save for you calling me a liar and me prefering to argument rather than telling you to **** off right away)? It's not like any of us even care

[CP5670]

The first two Dooms weren't really dark or "gloomy" though. I thought they were actually quite hilarious with the monsters constantly attacking each other, the comments at the end of each episode and those legendary exit game messages.

[ZylonBane]

Originally posted by Nico
Which is exactly what I didn't say originally

Originally posted by Nico
You wouldn't like FS2 being turned into a realistic space sim, I believe, you'd want prettier graphics and some cool effects, and basically no gameplay change. That's what they did for Doom3.

Ahem.

PS-- "purists" would insist that the action take place on Phobos and Deimos, not Mars.

[Roanoke]

Originally posted by Nico
It is not about puzzles, it is not crazy vehicle action over a whole level, it is not about funky gameplay innovations, it is about going forward in gloomy complex fighting creatures out of hell (and it has to be on Mars, according to purists) by finding the equivalents of the greebn, blue and red keys. Sure the gameplay is different, you have less monsters, it's 100% closed space etc, but that's merely an evolution - at the same time allowed by advancements in technology (prettyness) and limited by technology (prettyness= no large waves of monsters in stadium-sized open areas) - I really don't see that as betraying the original.
B

I hated the way D3 played. The areas were so confined you were almost always stuck with literally no room to manouver. Plus, you could almost gurantee a bad guy would teleport in directly behind you for a cheap scare.
Also, bad guys being able to appear literally anywhere, in a given location, meant the combat was completley boring. Things like position and tactics were meaningless when a bad guy would appear just behind you, or a locked door would open to allow a bad guy to ambush you.

It just becames a case of tripping each "trap" and slugging it out.
Quake 2 was better than Doom 3.

Originally posted by CP5670  
The first two Dooms weren't really dark or "gloomy" though. I thought they were actually quite hilarious with the monsters constantly attacking each other, the comments at the end of each episode and those legendary exit game messages.

The original Quake was especially good for getting hostiles to fight each other

[Nico]

Originally posted by ZylonBane

Ahem.

OOOOOK. So I'll be dumb and I'll insist that there was basically no gameplay change. You run, you shoot, you dodge, and that's all there is to Doom3, as much as it's all that there was to Doom.
And since you're boring me with little details and you avoid my main arguments, I'll conclude: screw you, I've had enough, ***** by yourself.

CP: IMHO, the musics, the textures, the design of the monsters, the sounds, about everything was made so it was not funny, but I guess I'm wrong, heh, because there was funny comments when you finished a level (like 50% of the shareware games back then). Doom was an hilarious moment of comedy, obviously, how could I've been so blind

Ah, I almost forgot how arguments on HLP were... How I missed them... not