[Roanoke]

Originally posted by nuclear1
Well, bear in mind that the Hecate is apparently not intended to be put into battle, as in the postion where it would have to use its beam cannons offensively. Defensively (i.e. "Proving Grounds" or "Argonautica"), it has sufficient firepower to deal with its attackers while it retreats. Compare it to the Orion:
*snip*
See there? Five anti-capital beams, three of them BGreens. The Orion is much more apparently intended to be used offensively, rather than as a fleet flagship or a carrier, as Hecates seem to be more comfortably used as.

That's no excuse in my book. Plus in Argonautica the attacker was a Corvette (albeit with Bomber support). An Orion would have nailed the Moloch in problem, assuming it had proper Fighter support to allow it to concentrate on the Corvette of course. A replacement should always be better than the original. Otherwise, what's the point ?

I've noticed the damage inflicted by TerSlash can be quite inconsistent aswell.

[Sheepy]

Basically what i see the beams designed for, slash for broadsides and the 'standard' beams for frontal attacks, seems only logical to me.

[Cobra]

which is very logical.

@ Karajorma: glad ya liked it. and right now i'm toning down its firepower.

@ Topace: Taking advice.

[pyro-manic]

I really like the mod, actually. The weapons seem a bit excessive for something that small, but it looks cool, and I'd use it. The weapons are incredibly simple to change, after all.

And I agree with Topace - call it a light cruiser. More befitting it's role and capabilities.

[Cobra]

GTLC... something. i don't know what to re-name it. all the greek and good egyptian names are taken.

[Nuclear1]

Originally posted by Roanoke
That's no excuse in my book. Plus in Argonautica the attacker was a Corvette (albeit with Bomber support). An Orion would have nailed the Moloch in problem, assuming it had proper Fighter support to allow it to concentrate on the Corvette of course. A replacement should always be better than the original. Otherwise, what's the point ?

I honestly don't think that the Hecate was intended to entirely replace the Orion. Sure, the Orion's were getting phased out, simply because most of them were 30+ years old. Still, the GTVA must have found good use for the Orion as an offensive weapon, leaving Hecates to perform a more carrier-suited role, while more and more corvettes were gradually added in as an offensive weapon to take the Orion's place.

Then again, this should be looked at in terms of the GTVA, as both sides now had combined their forces, and now each side had ships fitted to different roles. The Hatshepsut and the Typhon, IMO, had an opposite relation as the Orion-Hecate. The Typhon seemed to be more of a Vasudan fighter carrier, though it was still a problem to attack. The Hatshepsut, on the other hand, had a spine covered in anti-capital ship beams. I'm supposing that the GTVA had expected to decommission its old Orion and Typhons, and replace Typhons with Hecates and Orions with Hatshepsuts, since they seem to fit the same role as each other.

[pyro-manic]

My view is that the GTVA realised how vulnerable destroyers were when the Lucifer wiped out most of the fleet. Having such large "eggs in one basket" ships was risky, so they decided to shift destroyers away from being "ships of the line" towards command and control, while leaving the brunt of the fighting to corvettes (two corvettes are much better than one destroyer). This would explain the Hecate's contrasting design to the Orion. It has all-round beam coverage, and extensive defensive weaponry, whereas the Orion is very vulnerable to bombers (though it is very powerful in ship-to-ship combat).

The Hatshepsut is somewhat different, however. I think it was designed to take advantage of beam weapons (the tech fluff mentions there were problems fitting Typhons with beams) - it has excellent firepower across most arcs, unlike the Typhon, and again is heavily defended. I think it was designed to work well in concert with Sobeks in front-line situations, rather than being a command ship like the Hecate.

[WMCoolmon]

Actually, all GTVA vessels have strongish anti-cap beams in their forward firing arcs, excepting the Colossus.

This doesn't make sense when you consider that te Lucifer had forward-firing beams (making it idiotic to try and go toe-to-toe with it). Possibly Command planned on a more offensive approach, hence quickly consolidating gains in the nebula, where forward firepower would be key.

Meanwhile the Colossus would jump in and neutralize the Lucifer.

[FireCrack]

The colossus was definitley a broadsider.

[Raptor]

Originally posted by FireCrack
The colossus was definitley a broadsider.

Too bad the turret code only seems to allow 3/4 turrets to attack a single target at the same time.  An even then the AI dosn't pick the right weapons (unless you've been messing with the weapons table to ensure that anti-fighter weapons are NOT used against destroyers)

Might be altered by difficulty setting, though I doubt it.

The SCP people really need to do something about the turret code.  Then again I've been saying that for ~3 years now, and nothings come of it:sigh:

[WMCoolmon]

Too bad you weren't saying that when I was muching around in it some months ago.

Also IIRC taylor made some changes, but reverted them beccause they unbalanced missions (e.g. making a capship target asteroids with flak and AA made such missions extraordinarily easy. )

[Pnakotus]

I didn't notice those were taken out.  Couldn't it be a commandline option, like -nobeampierce, since the idea of 'escorting' an Orion through an asteroid field is just stupid?

[Spicious]

Wouldn't it work better as a mission flag?

[Pnakotus]

Perhaps, but in the same way I don't play with shield-penetrating beams I don't want to play with grossly incompetent gunnery crews aboard 2km warships.  Those 'escort through asteroid field' missions were ALWAYS weak: the guns didn't help and it was usually some trivial number of fighters covering it.  I mean, hey, its only an Orion - who cares?

[Cobra]

it was only the most important orion in the entire Great War.

the turrets were fine, actually. would have been a lot cooler if it had AA beams and fired through the endless amount of asteroids.

[Anaz]

or perhaps the mission could be edited so that the guns were destroyed, and the modified mission stuffed in a media vp, so we can have non-incompetent gunners.

[Pnakotus]

Cobie, that was sarcasm.

I feel this is precisely analogous to the beampierce issue.  Since -nobeampierce was implemented, the same rationale can be applied to implement -gunnerswithaclue.  Purists will never turn it on and everyone else will: everyone wins.  Except, possibly the codemonkeys who have to implement it....

[Boomer]

@the issue of the "Overpowered" science Vessel.

It just scares you that the little nerd of the Fleet could totally kick your ass if you screw with him too much.

About time that someone released a Science Vessel Mod.

@Incompetent Gunners:  Think about this:  Two fighters are slated to protect an Orion.  Why?  Because its not supposed to be all that hard anyway.  In fact, weren't you out there more for protecting the Galatea from Shivans than for asteroid escort?

Encouragement to the Coders:  Remember, we might make the new ships, but you guys make them look good.

@Everyone else:  Those so-called "code-monkeys" could easily find other things to do.  Show some respect.

*reads post*

*knows he shouldn't post without lots of editing*

*posts for the hell of it*

*Dons Flame-proof armor*

[Pnakotus]

Non-retarded turret AI was introduced, and removed because it renders several missions completely redundant.  I'm just asking for switchable, since the premise of those missions is mindblowingly stupid on the outset, and in my opinion the AI should be improved as much as possible then crippled down (where necessary) to provide the 'authentic' FS2 experience for purists.

Lets be clear.  The guns shoot at bombs.  They don't shoot at 100m+ rocks.  This is utterly, laughably stupid.  When I was in highschool playing FS I thought it was stupid, and now I'm 25 it's not any less so.

[Cobra]

actually, in my FS game the Galatea actually shot the asteroids.