[Kamikaze]

http://news.softpedia.com/news/The-Microsoft-Toshiba-HD-DVD-Alliance-Changes-Xbox-360-3902.shtml

Apparently, the Xbox 360 will be released initially without an HD-DVD drive. However, they're going to release a second wave with the HD-DVD drive included.

Looks like the early adopters will get boned.

[Turnsky]

and this is why i love being in australia, because we'll have to wait until march for the XB360.

[Admiral LSD]

So, let me get this straight: They're releasing it months early, in a less than ideal state all so they can meet an unrealistic deadline they imposed on themselves to try and get the upper hand over a competitor?

Yep, sounds like a typical MS release to me

edit: oops! Forgot to add "and then releasing a 'Service Pack' a few months later to correct the deficiencies in the release version"

[Taristin]

Ha Ha! Typical.

[Turnsky]

however, microsoft are good to their customers, if this is actually honest-to-god truth, MS could just do what they did with the first XB, and do a customer loyalty thing (this happened when they dropped the prices here) 2 games, and a controller, which was the equivelant of the $250 AUD price drop at the time.

so hang onto your dockets, folks!

[Deepblue]

And how many people are actually going to rent/buy HD-DVDs? It's not like games will use it. Same story w/ Blu-Ray.

I think the inclusion is merely for the "ohhh shiny new thing!" effect.

[Scuddie]

Deepblue, people said the very same thing about DVDs in the VHS era.  As did they say the very same thing about DVD-ROM in the CD-ROM era.  Current DVD sucks cow utters for HD, especially in 1080 format.  Games aren't far behind either.

[FireCrack]

And the rock of progress pushes on, crushing all that refuse to move.

[Deepblue]

I'll place a bet now that the HD-DVD version starts shipping about the same time Halo 3 and the PS3 are released...

[Mefustae]

The next Legend of Zelda game; Twilight Princess, is supposedly going to be launched extremely close to the Xbox360 release date, so in my opinion, the outward lack of a HD-DVD Drive, and a release date all but coinciding with one of the most anticipated games this year, Microsoft is looking at hard times ahead for the initial release...

[aldo_14]

I've already read developers (http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000990049405/ for example) complaining that the DVD format has too little space for HD resolution video.

This is stupid, though; it is just ****ing over the early adopter and removing both incentives to buy early (before the PS3 release inevitably forces prices - and profit margins - down in the console wars proper), and also to repeat buy (who'd want to trust a company that effectively forces you to replace your console a few months after release?).  If an HD-DVD version is released to coincide with the PS3 release (or indeed the Revolution), I can very easily see people go for the alternative rather than repay for the console they bought only a few months ago.  And, of course, coupled with reported hard disk free versions (IIRC MS have said no game 'needs' the HD), it'll just confuse the hell out of people.

Offhand, Zelda on GC is scheduled for x360 day, so is the PSP (in Europe), and rumouredly so is a $60 minature PS2.

[Deepblue]

Originally posted by aldo_14
I've already read developers (http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000990049405/ for example) complaining that the DVD format has too little space for HD resolution video.

This is stupid, though; it is just ****ing over the early adopter and removing both incentives to buy early (before the PS3 release inevitably forces prices - and profit margins - down in the console wars proper), and also to repeat buy (who'd want to trust a company that effectively forces you to replace your console a few months after release?).  If an HD-DVD version is released to coincide with the PS3 release (or indeed the Revolution), I can very easily see people go for the alternative rather than repay for the console they bought only a few months ago.  And, of course, coupled with reported hard disk free versions (IIRC MS have said no game 'needs' the HD), it'll just confuse the hell out of people.

Offhand, Zelda on GC is scheduled for x360 day, so is the PSP (in Europe), and rumouredly so is a $60 minature PS2.

When does Zelda release? Xbox 360 will launch November 14. And they dropped the plan for non-HDD versions of the Xbox 360. I personally believe thath Microsoft will surprise some people a bit by          including HD-DVD drives at launch.

@Developer... typical, pre-rendered cutscenes... whoop-de-doo! I want good gameplay, not a bloody Metal Gear Solid game.

[aldo_14]

How about high resolution textures?  Or high quality sound?  Both require large amounts of (DVD) disk space if done to sufficient fidelity.

I mean, lets face - both Sony and Microsoft are faceticious and will use cutscenes ahead of gameplay so long as they think it'll look better in adverts.

Zelda release date is unconfirmed but Amazon US IIRC list it for November.

[Mefustae]

Originally posted by Deepblue
I want good gameplay, not a bloody Metal Gear Solid game.

Originally posted by aldo_14
I mean, lets face - both Sony and Microsoft are faceticious and will use cutscenes ahead of gameplay so long as they think it'll look better in adverts.

It's great to see that Nintendo isn't following this crappy trend (even though Metal Gear Solid is an exceptional case, as the game IS a bloody cutscene ) and going with Gaming over Graphics, i'm just a bit worried that most unrefined gamers, like the ignorant cattle they are, will go for the games that look the best rather than the games that play the best.

"Look at my game, it has ultra-rendered, 3DUltra, hyper-lifelike graphics!"
"Really, what does it play like"
"****, but it looks blimmin' nice!"

[aldo_14]

I think Ninty are targeting a different crowd this time round to Ms and Sony, anyways; such as the more nostalgic of us ( downloadable SNES games etc), and that strange thing known as woo...man (with a less complicated / more intuitive control style; apparently the DS has been massively popular with the opposite gender).  It's really quite clever - if it works.

[Roanoke]

No doubt Sony and MS will both find ways to market their machines as "the most powerful" too.

[Deepblue]

Actually, Microsoft has marketed the Xbox 360 as being better than the PS3 at some things but not at others for the hardware department. I think the Xbox 360 has a huge advantage over the PS3 with its online service. Sony has so far not really talked about its online plans, which IMHO can only be bad news.

[aldo_14]

I don't think online gaming is a killer app.  It's certainly not been over here; IIRC only about 30-odd percent of UK xbox gamers use online multiplayer (in terms of numbers, but not percentages, there are more PS2 than Xbox online users); the last figures I read had a (flat-lined) 500,000 xbox  live subscribers out of about 9m console owners, about 5.5%. (and 780,000 PS2 network adapters sold out of something like 50m+ consoles).  And, of course, Segas Dreamcast attempt failed horribly - despite it being marketed as that consoles main attraction.

 It's partly dependent on broadband pentration; in the Us it's 'only' around 36% (much lower on other estimations), and lower in many other countries.  Not to mention the added cost of a subscription based service on top of broadband costs (my brother has an xbox - I believe his reaction to me when I told him it cost money to play online was '**** off').

Of course there's also the additional issue of actual infrastructure in connecting a broadband modem to a console; I'd wager most people keep consoles in the living room, and any internet stuff with a computer in an office.  People will be likely to be put off by paying for unecessary peripherals to facilitate connection in that case.

And a side issue of whether its more fun to play alongside people; I've not used Live, but I've read a lot of horror stories of utter dicks abusing the VOIP service to spew crap.  That's something PC gamers might be accustomed to, but perhaps not kid average.  Certainly, I would always prefer to play with a mate in the living room rather than some anonymous person halfway across the continent - when I do play online, it's usually with someone I know from real life.

Online also has some side issues; giving developers the 'patch it later' release route (I think there's already been PS2 patches for FFwhatever, as well as a couple for Xbox games), and encouraging overpriced map-packs / downloadable content rather than original development.  And of course lag, which can exist even on high speed lines if there's enough packet loss, etc.

AFAIK it's (online console gaming) a very much Amero-centric thing, at least in terms of the actual current adoption.  And there's a lot of other countries out there who buy consoles.

To me, online gaming - particularly with a subscription model that only costs more money - is about as important in a buying decision as whether or not the console has 2 or 4 controller ports.  And I don't even play 4 player.

[Martinus]

[color=66ff00]aldo tell you brother that he need not pay to play: X-link Kai
[/color]

[Deepblue]

Um, actually Xbox Live just passed 2,000,000 people suscribed... Meaning it has many more people than PS2 online and is the most successful console online gaming service ever.

And at the part about playing with buddies, that's why there is the friend system. If you know enough great people on Live you can set up custom games and leave out the idiots.

At the complaint of lag... On most servers it doesn't exist. At least I have not experienced great amounts personally.

About the price. The price of Xbox Live is very reasonable if you think about it. It costs $50 for a full year. You can easily spend that much on a new game, and chances are that game will not last a year.