[Slasher]

Originally posted by Prophet



If the system is within Narn space then the Centauri would have found it during the occupation. Yes?
But Narn warships did flee after the war had been lost. One G'Quan came seeking help from B5, remember? That most certainly wasn't the only one going in to hiding.

It's possible the jumpgate to the system was far away from the normal hyperspace lanes.  That way, unless you knew where to look for the beacon, you probably wouldn't find it.

In the pilot episode, G'Kar talked about how Narn's "unlimited manpower" coupled with Minbari technology would have made for an unstoppable alliance.  I don't know if they referenced numbers anywhere in the series for the total Narn population, but G'Kar's comment implies there are a lot of them.  That alone has its military and industrial advantages.  

BTW, in Day of the Dead, Londo's special friend said there were 40 billion Centauri in the Republic.

[Akalabeth Angel]

Originally posted by Prophet

When the Centauri concured half of the galaxy, it didn't happen in a day, but slowly more like exploring. And during then there weren't any pesky aliens, like Humans and Narns bothering them. So there was plenty of room to expand.
The Centauri propably controlled Narn sapce, but not completely. And not the planets.

     Actually if you watch The Long Twilight Struggle, where the main fleet is destroyed by the Shadows at Gorash. There are refugees coming into Babylon 5, and Franklin talks to one of the Narns who basically says 'the Centauri didn't finish the job'. Franklin relates this to G'Kar, who later uses it to argue against the military strike saying 'the Centauri are always thorough, they don't leave things like this.'

    I'd have to rewatch it as its been a while, but I think the implication was that the Centauri in this case didn't land ground troops and totally secure the system, which they normally do. When the war started, the Centauri weren't expecting war . . . which helped with the initial Narn victories, but eventually the Centauri military got into gear and began pushing back the narns. Before they hit Narn, they certainly didn't conquer or secure all of the systems . . . but with the main fleet destroyed, the other systems would fall relatively easily.

Well they did have the Drazi helping them out... But I have to agree with you.

     It's not the fact that they were there that's the problem, it's that they were there with a lot ships. I don't recall the exact numbers, but I think there may have been some numbers as to the fleet strengths in the show. I've only watched season 5 once as it's pretty lackluster.

If the system is within Narn space then the Centauri would have found it during the occupation. Yes?
But Narn warships did flee after the war had been lost. One G'Quan came seeking help from B5, remember? That most certainly wasn't the only one going in to hiding.

      Probably not actually. The thing about hyperspace is that you need to find routes to new systems. That's why you have massive Explorer vessels like we see in season 2. The Centauri would have needed to send out scouts or explorers into hyperspace looking for new routes, and then maybe they would have found the secret system. When ships travel in hyperspace, they stay on certain "beacon" routes. If they lose the beacon, or wander off the route they're totally screwed as they'd be lost forever. In order to find the new system they'd have to venture out into hyperspace, not on a beacon route (but  probably fixed to the beacon of wherever they left), look for presumably signs of a new system. Anyway, it would be time consuming . . . and it's debatable whether the Centauri would even do it if they didn't know what they were looking for. And if the narn government is wiped out by a big rock, who's going to tell them about it??

[Prophet]

Actually the beacons mark the jumpgates. Beacon routes are paths between the gates. If you want to go somewhere else you need to know the exact hyperspace coordinates, or else you'll end up in a star or something.

And since the Centauri almost certainly have maps of the Narn territories (it was once their empire, they know where the stars are and if they have planets) they would likely use the chance to map those areas again. For scientific and tactical reasons. So ewery star would propably be visited. Even if not, they would still be listening the space. Large base with a fleet in the orbit would be detectable because of many reasons. This is ofcourse incase there are no disturbance, like large asteroid fields or major radiation sources in the background.
It is possible but unlikely that a major base would reamain undetected in occupiet territory. Like G'Kar said the Centauri are always thorough.

And since we are not really having any major disagreements about anything I'm going to get some sleep. I have written way too many long posts today. (If I write over 10 lines I become exhausted )

[Akalabeth Angel]

Here's a couple of maps produced by a group of players who were on contract or worked in concert with Agents of Gaming. These particular maps weren't actually published:

Systems and Territories - 2260

Systems and Territories - 2263

Note that the "official" map for 2257, which was published in the B5Wars rules compendium is slightly different from the 3063 map.

The Narn Regime also includes: Carridun, Quadrant 7, Sorith, Tachung, Maroth, T'll'in, Quadrant 37 and Ardun

There are a few other changes as well:

Balosians don't have Alaca
Lumati don't have Trembas or Selchat
Centauri don't have Ildra
Tiree, Troth and Markab belong to the Markab, not the EA
Ch'lonas lack Zacalth
Deneth lack Quartha and Korel
Cascor lack Krish

And the Drazi, Centauri, and Brakiri lack those worlds which the Narn controlled (aforementioned).


Note that the jump map doesn't correlated to normal space. Some systems in hyperspace might be farther away from eachother than in real space. I'm not sure, but I aren't the Centauri from Alpha Centauri? And if that's the case, the closest system to Earth in real space is damn far in hyperspace. I'm not sure however. . . Obviously the Centauri are self-named, not by the Earth alliance.

If anyone wants more information or maps let me know I have two zips, one of which has these maps + 2 others. And one details the Centauri republic at  its height. Though unless TBP is going to do some Orieni ships, I don't think the latter will be of any use to anyone.

[Prophet]

Thanks, these maps will do fine.