Author Topic: Der ewige Jude vs Anti-gayism  (Read 13354 times)

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Offline Kazan

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Der ewige Jude vs Anti-gayism
It would be godwin if it weren't for the exception clause [for validity]

http://www.hatecrime.org/subpages/hitler/hitler.html
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Offline BlackDove

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Der ewige Jude vs Anti-gayism
Extremists are stupid. Both ways.

Factually, well. I hope we all judge things the way we see them.

 

Offline Sandwich

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Der ewige Jude vs Anti-gayism
As a Jewish Christian (aka Messianic Jew), I've said to someone I am friends with and discovered was gay, "I do not hate you. I think that your lifestyle is wrong and is a sin, but that doesn't mean I'm going to shun you."

It's along the same lines as preached in our church here: Love the Muslims, hate Islam. It's a matter of keeping things in the right perspective. I'm not without sin - far from it. I'm in no position to judge anyone; from my POV, only someone without sin is worthy to judge.

Anyway, I think that got sidetracked. The comparisons between anti-semetism and anti-homosexuality are valid to a point - they sound the same. However, from the perspective of a Bible-believing Christian (not those nominal "My parents were Christian for a few minutes last August, so I guess I am too" people), homosexuality is sin. Being Jewish is not.

That, however, does not excuse the misplaced hatred and fear most Christians have towards homosexuals. As if they don't sin themselves - hah. Our attitude should be that of Jesus - one of correction in love and mercy, not rejection in hatred and judgement.

Anyway, that's my two pence. I think I qualified my statements in all the right places, so if there's something I said that you disagree with, please read it again to make sure I said what you think I said. :)
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Offline BlackDove

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Der ewige Jude vs Anti-gayism
Quote
Originally posted by Sandwich
I've said to someone I am friends with and discovered was gay, "I do not hate you. I think that your lifestyle is wrong and is a sin, but that doesn't mean I'm going to shun you."


I'm sure that made them feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

But I don't really care, so I'm not going to argue over this.

  

Offline Kazan

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Der ewige Jude vs Anti-gayism
Sandwich that's fine - you're being tolerant.  I think you foolish for believing in that which you have no evidence to support, but you are not attempting the violate the rights of others which makes you mostly harmless
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Offline aldo_14

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Der ewige Jude vs Anti-gayism
I would say both anti-semitism and homophobia are equally wrong and equally illogical, and that you can't justify prejudice based upon what any book says - whether purporting to be holy or otherwise - especially because all books are written by men and are subject to the prejudices of men.

(or, er, women)

EDIT; I'd say it's wrong to say 'I don't hate you, but you're still wrong' with this sort of thing (it's different from stuff which can be proven to be wrong, like murder or similar), because in saying so you provide a degree of justification for hatred, intentional or otherwise.  Saying something is a sin is essentially saying 'you'll be punished by God' and I think implying anyone desrves to be punished for something as trivial as homosexuality is simply wrong.  Especially when the justification for that punishment comes from a belief system adopted by a person.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2005, 03:37:29 pm by 181 »

 

Offline Nuclear1

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Der ewige Jude vs Anti-gayism
I think I'm going to agree with Sandwich on this one. I simply don't understand why people have such an unusual fear of homosexuals. I've got friends who are homosexual, and though I don't like the idea that they are so, I'm still friends with them.

Christians who hate homosexuals shouldn't be regarded as the Christian community as a whole. While homosexuality[/u] is looked down on by the church, homosexuals[/u] shouldn't be.

Homosexuality is just like any other sin. While the ideas of cheating on your spouse or murder might float around in your head, I consider it much worse (and an actual sin) to act on your thoughts, to actually cheat on your spouse, murder someone, or steal. We can't be perfect, but God does ask us to strive to be so, and that involves holding back from our sinful thoughts.

I don't believe homosexuals are evil. If I had to hate homosexuals for being so and acting so, then I would have to hate myself and everyone else in the world. Thus, if a homosexual doesn't act on his/her urges, then I believe that he is not sinful in this sense.
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Offline aldo_14

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Der ewige Jude vs Anti-gayism
Well, my opinion differs in that I don't believe the urge is a sin, whether acted on or not.  It's 'weird', from the perspective of a heterosexual, but I don't view it as being hurtful, wrong or indeed unnatural.

That's my position on the matter.

 

Offline Windrunner

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Der ewige Jude vs Anti-gayism
I am not that good in expressing my self in these debates. But my stand is simple: I don't hate anyone unless they have done something to me or to my loved ones. If they have then they will certanlly feel my hate.
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Offline Kazan

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Der ewige Jude vs Anti-gayism
nuclear1: people don't have "homosexual urges" they simply are homosexual


religious egocentrism... oui
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Offline aldo_14

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Der ewige Jude vs Anti-gayism
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan
nuclear1: people don't have "homosexual urges" they simply are homosexual


I think he means (to paraphrase) it's "ok" to be attracted to people of the same sex, just not to act on it.  Similar to the justification the (Protestant) church uses for gay clergy - it's ok as long as they're celibate

Which IMO is still pretty unfair.

 

Offline Kamikaze

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Der ewige Jude vs Anti-gayism
It's their business if they want to have homosexual relationships or consentual gay sex. "It's okay to have thoughts, but not to act" is a pretty stupid stance on homosexuality.
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Offline achtung

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Der ewige Jude vs Anti-gayism
All I can say is don't force your way of life on me and I don't care. Although I will admit I don't agree with homosexuality but I don't hate the people that are.  The only reason for me to hate someone is the same as windrunners if they hurt me or my loved ones then they're hated.
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Offline Kazan

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Der ewige Jude vs Anti-gayism
Swantz: no homosexuals are trying to force their way of life onto you so i don't know why you felt the need to make that statement...


... unless you had bought into antihomosexual bigot's propaganda about the "homosexual agenda"
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Offline achtung

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Der ewige Jude vs Anti-gayism
I didn't say they were trying to I'm just sayin as long as they don't (which I'm not saying they are) I'm fine with 'em doing whatever they want.  

Plus I'm being general with that statement.
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Offline aldo_14

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Der ewige Jude vs Anti-gayism
Quote
Originally posted by Swantz
I didn't say they were trying to I'm just sayin as long as they don't (which I'm not saying they are) I'm fine with 'em doing whatever they want.  

Plus I'm being general with that statement.


Nah, yer fine.

Kazan just sometimes gets a bit... wound up (no offense Kaz).. about these sort of things.

 

Offline Annorax

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Der ewige Jude vs Anti-gayism
Quote
Originally posted by Kamikaze
It's their business if they want to have homosexual relationships or consentual gay sex. "It's okay to have thoughts, but not to act" is a pretty stupid stance on homosexuality.


That only sounds strange until you realize that that's exactly how US law works in this regard. Banning homosexual thoughts would be dangerously 1984-esque... but homosexual acts are still banned, Supreme Court rulings notwithstanding.

 

Offline Bobboau

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Der ewige Jude vs Anti-gayism
Quote
Originally posted by Kazan
nuclear1: people don't have "homosexual urges" they simply are homosexual


what about bisexuals?
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Offline Kazan

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Der ewige Jude vs Anti-gayism
Annorax: the SCOTUS has repeatedly struck down anti-sodomy laws

Quote
Originally posted by aldo_14
Kazan just sometimes gets a bit... wound up (no offense Kaz).. about these sort of things.


yeah i'm a ***** about people's right's being respected :D
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Offline Kazan

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Der ewige Jude vs Anti-gayism
Quote
Originally posted by Bobboau


what about bisexuals?


they're bisexual.. which is completely different from either
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