[mikhael]

You win.

[BlackDove]

Originally posted by mikhael
You win.

Thank you.

[mikhael]

Good, now that the little diatribe is over, can we avoid linking sadism, masochism and other philias automatically with 'bad' behaviors, please? Thanks.

[Kazan]

mikhael > blackdove

pwnd

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by Kazan
Sandwich the Catholic Church is a form of Christianity..
don't like it? too farking bad

That it may be, but it's a terrible representative of Christianity.

...Actually, I take that back. Catholocism is a good example ("good" referring to "example", not to them being "good"). Mainstream Christians aren't much better... ahh, look, you've gotten me into a rant on the state of people who profess to be "Christian" again...

Let's just say that the Catholic Curch shouldn't be taken as any sort of example of the rest of Christianity... or what Christianity should be. For that, look to the persecuted Christians in China.

[mikhael]

So far as I can tell, if you can't take the Catholic Church as an example of "Christianity", you can't take any sect as one. They're all screwy in some way.

Of course, this come from the perspective of someone who pretty much distrusts unreasoned faith in a dusty old tome.

[aldo_14]

Can someone actually tell me what the biblical reason for homosexuality being 'wrong' is?

Because I looked up the whole Sodom thing in wikipedia, and it's not entirely clear cut there;  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom_and_Gomorrah

Or the reasoning why for any religion; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality#Religion

Obviously I'm reading this from an entirely laymans perspective.

[Nuke]

Originally posted by Kazan
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sadist
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=masochist

both a little "off" but if it's only roleplayed, and consentual then it's fine

so long as its kept private. everyone publicising their sex life will only jack up the rape/abuse rates. i like bsdm as much as the next person but that doesnt mean i want to see it happening at the bus stop. rape and abuse rates tend to be lesser in sexually repressed societies. victims of rape/abuse tend to have more abnormal sexual behavior than non-victims. so the root of sadisim and masochisim is product, directly or indirectly, of ill sexual behavior. for it to be displayed would be like saying its ok to rape people. same goes with gays, they should repress their sexual behavuior in public. i do not mean that they cannot declare their orentation in public in order to find a partner. in other words its ok to talk and look girlie, its ok to display gay symbols, but i dont wanna see any crotch grabbing. and i would hold straight people to the same standard. sex is a dangerous thing if not handeled properly, and most people cant do that. people seem more intrested in getting layed than marriage, the christians need to focus on the general lustfull behavior of society and stop singling out gays, gays need to take a hint from the black metal movment and start torching churches, the rest of the perverts can all go **** themselves.

[aldo_14]

Susrely in sexually repressed societies it just means rape reporting levels are lesser.  I mean, if you take the hardcore Islamic societies, women can be stoned to death for adultery for being raped........ or raped as punishment for another relatives crime (as seen in a heavily publicised case in IIRC Pakistan).

Also using 'victims of rape/abuse tend to have more abnormal sexual behavior' comes dangerously close to blaming the victim.  do you have any sort of statistical proof for that statement?

[Nuke]

surely in sexually repressed societies, there would be less reporting of rape. but if there was a way to measure it accuratly you would find something similar to my assumption. mind you anything i say is speculation, as i tend to sheild my mind from data overdose. i perfer to be more abstract in my conclusions. as for mid-eastern sexual atrocities, i cannot trust any information because it would follow american biases and preconcpetions of mid-eastern life.

to referance the second part of your counter argument, im not trying to blame the victim for the problem. odd sexual behavior may be the only way that victims can have a healthy love life. but like i said, keep it private. as for my source, i remember hearing it from some mysteryous person, probibly my cat or one of my delusions.

[SadisticSid]

aldo: http://www.aaets.org/arts/art31.htm, there are a few references in there. It can cause all sorts of psychological problems and unusual sexual behaviour can be a physical outlet for it. I'm not sure where one would get statistics from pertaining to victims becoming rapists themselves (it is an unusual statistic) but it's a fairly well known fact in psychology.

Should that excuse rapists though? Definitely not. Just because there are mitigating circumstances in one's life does not override the responsibility of free will.

[aldo_14]

Noooo... i mean their behaviour prior to abuse, not after.  The implication was made that 'victims of rape/abuse tend to have more abnormal sexual behavior than non-victims' within the context of banning sadism / masochism and to me that implies them as a causal, not caused aspect of rape and abuse.  

Obviously rapists, abusers, etc themselves are wrong in the head, though.  IMO - I'm not sure of clinical support - rape in particular is seen to be more about power and dominance than the actual sex aspect of the crime.  So i can see rapists (or those inclined to it) getting a kick out of S&M, but i'm not sure you could classify that as being causal to the act of rape, or simply an interest which arises from existing mental defect.

 I know about the potential psychological effects of rape, and the general theory that the abused with be inclined to become abusers.

[Kazan]

nuke actually your assumption is incorrect - the rape rate is unrelated to the sexual repression [rape is a power thing, not a sex thing]

however the more sexually repressed a society is the higher the tendancy for insanity

[Nuke]

well that latter statment explains me

[Kazan]

heh

[EtherShock]

I disagree with sexual repression. Do you have any idea how many people are so wound up because they haven't gotten laid in months/years? Sexual frustration, no one wants to be in that state.

I don't think repressing sexual behavior would make anything better. That's like taking a step backwards. I'm not saying let everyone play grab ass in public; people deserve respect, but I seriously doubt sex and crime are that interrelated. Rape and abuse are psychological issues. They can be caused by some catalyst in the past or learned behavior (particularly abuse). Solving these problems involves reporting it (which few do) identifying potentially risky behavior, and early intervention, the same you do for any kind of psychological problem. I don't think BDSM can be blamed for that. Besides, the people probably won't stand for it. I sure as hell wouldn't. If it turns your crank, that's fine with me, so long as both parties voluntarily participate.

[Kazan]

Originally posted by EtherShock
I don't think BDSM can be blamed for that.

and you think correctly

[Sandwich]

Originally posted by aldo_14
Can someone actually tell me what the biblical reason for homosexuality being 'wrong' is?

Because I looked up the whole Sodom thing in wikipedia, and it's not entirely clear cut there;  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom_and_Gomorrah

Or the reasoning why for any religion; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality#Religion

Obviously I'm reading this from an entirely laymans perspective.

Like I said on the previous page:

Originally posted by Sandwich
From where I stand, the Bible seems very clear on the issue. I refer you to the Wikipedia article (of all things! ) concerning the Bible and Homosexuality, to make your own decision.

[Kazan]

yeah and anyone who lives in the year 2005 CE should know better than to trust a book written and assmebled by human beings in the year 300 CE

[Kazan]

[edit wrong thread]