[redmenace]

[WMCoolmon]

Can we skip tomorrow?

I know it's heartless, but I don't want to have to wonder who's being genuinely sorry, and who's just using it to further their political agenda.


However, if for no other reason than to respect those that died that day...

*moment of silence*

[Mongoose]

Four years already?  My God...it almost makes me feel a little bit old.  I guess, for those of us in this country at least, it's one of those things that you'll remember until the day you die.  It's our generation's Pearl Harbor or JFK assassination.  I know that tomorrow's a day like any other, and I know it's been four years, but whenever I see or hear that date, it always makes me pause for a second, and it probably always will. To those that died, we will never forget you.

[Night Hammer]

Originally posted by Mongoose
 I know that tomorrow's a day like any other, and I know it's been four years, but whenever I see or hear that date, it always makes me pause for a second, and it probably always will.  

me too

[DragonClaw]

* waits for kazan to come in here somehow connecting september 11 to katrina and throwing in a 'Bush's fault' *


It really doesn't feel like 4 years... wow.

[Genryu]

I'll get my head bit off for this, but why should we lament the loss of approximatively 3000 americans, when there was more than 10000 lives lost in Irak ?

[Blaise Russel]

One, two, THREE replies until somebody started politicising it. Thanks, guys, that's just great.



My sympathies, specifically to those who the 3000 left behind.

[mister J]

I'll get my head bit off for this, but why should we lament the loss of approximatively 3000 americans, when there was more than 10000 lives lost in Irak ?

because, simply put, in both cases, the lives of decent hardworking people were lost. I lament both these instances of loss of life.

My sympathies to all concerned.

[Fineus]

You probably will get your head bitten off for that, Gen. But not by me.

My gripe is the way it has become fashionable to force people into this convenient rememberance on the day that an event happened. Surely those that care can choose to remember on any day of the year and in whatever fashion they choose. Those that don't want it forced on them shouldn't be made to remember what society tells us to remember on any day of the year.

As an aside note.. this comes from years of "one minute silences" in school for events like V Day and so on. During that time I was too young to know why I was being made to be silent and I certainly wasn't thinking about those who fought and died on either side. Now I don't see why I should be made to remember on any particular day. If I want to honor an event - I'll do so in my own way. Society can go hang.

[/rant]

[WMCoolmon]

Originally posted by Genryu
I'll get my head bit off for this, but why should we lament the loss of approximatively 3000 americans, when there was more than 10000 lives lost in Irak ?

Because even if those 10,000 were all innocents, soldiers, even terrorists (whatever your definition may be), it's important to remember that they all lived and died and try to learn from it.

Those 3000 Americans were killed without regard to whether or not they were responsible for whatever reasons the people that killed them had for killing them. They, as a group, were innocent. You may be able to pick out a few individuals and claim that they deserved it, but I don't think there's any rationalization that can cover every single individual death.

[phatosealpha]

I don't know.  I tend to think the only real reason anybody's actually lamenting or commemerating them is simply because their deaths were so dramatic, and it's a convienient way to feel more compassionate.  It's a relatively easy date to remember and it doesn't actually require people to do all that much. So these 3000 innocent victims get a big day of commemoration, while the 42,000+ who died in road accidents last year get jack. Guess you gotta go out on TV if you're really gonna be remembered.

But then, I'm more then a bit cynical about these things.

[Mefustae]

It's not so much that It was a dramtic demise of 3000+ innocents, but more that it was the first time in a long while that the US got a smack in the face that it so richly deserved. It's just quite sad that it had to be at the expense of so many innocent men and women, and the brave souls that tried to save them...

...And really, what does commemorating death really accomplish anyway. I'm not saying they should be forgotten, heck no, doing that would essentially the social growth of Humanity. What i'm saying is, why should we revisit deaths that were so painfully meaningless...? [/Exastentialist]

[phatosealpha]

Well, it certainly was a smack in the face.  As to whether we deserved it, well, I don't think we did, but somebody obviously did.  Thought we did enough to kill themselves giving it to us.

Anyway, I don't mean to sound like I don't care that those people died.  It sucks they died, and no one deserves to die like that.  But undeserved deaths are a dime a dozen, and I don't think at all this is anything but a political day of rememberance.

[SadisticSid]

http://www.luckykazoo.com/media/2005/04/america-we-stand-as-one.html

[Solatar]

First off, and most importanly, *observes moment of silence*. I hate hearing about people dying in car wrecks and murders, but 3000 people dying at once is a truly horrible thing.

Secondly...I can't believe this place (well, I can, that's the sad part). It doesn't matter WHAT the topic is, a bunch if people all decide to start attacking it. Seriously...if you want to start saying that the 9/11 people deserved it, or that it was all so-and-so's fault, or some other **** like that, start your own thread and ***** there. For those of us who actually care about it a bit, it kinda sucks to have a bunch of sympathy posts mingled in with "..well, it was only 3000 people, who cares?" Is there actually any harm in NOT tearing the situation limb from limb every single time a thread mentions something almost political?

[Genryu]

A little clarification here, I didn't express my idea correctly. Iwasn't saying that you shouldn't commemorate the victims of 9/11, they were innocents that shouldn't have to die. But it irks me something fierce that you continue to cry about them, when they're already dead for a year, when people in Irak still dies today due to the deaths on 9/11.

[Jeryko]

Originally posted by Solatar
First off, and most importanly, *observes moment of silence*. I hate hearing about people dying in car wrecks and murders, but 3000 people dying at once is a truly horrible thing.

Secondly...I can't believe this place (well, I can, that's the sad part). It doesn't matter WHAT the topic is, a bunch if people all decide to start attacking it. Seriously...if you want to start saying that the 9/11 people deserved it, or that it was all so-and-so's fault, or some other **** like that, start your own thread and ***** there. For those of us who actually care about it a bit, it kinda sucks to have a bunch of sympathy posts mingled in with "..well, it was only 3000 people, who cares?" Is there actually any harm in NOT tearing the situation limb from limb every single time a thread mentions something almost political?

QFE

[SadisticSid]

It's not 'sympathy' at all though. Posting here only serves to say "me too, I'm a good citizen for participating in some trivial national ceremony." Kal said it right.

[Mefustae]

Originally posted by Solatar
Secondly...I can't believe this place (well, I can, that's the sad part). It doesn't matter WHAT the topic is, a bunch if people all decide to start attacking it. Seriously...if you want to start saying that the 9/11 people deserved it, or that it was all so-and-so's fault, or some other **** like that, start your own thread and ***** there. For those of us who actually care about it a bit, it kinda sucks to have a bunch of sympathy posts mingled in with "..well, it was only 3000 people, who cares?" Is there actually any harm in NOT tearing the situation limb from limb every single time a thread mentions something almost political?

Indeed, this post is was created simply to promt discussion and rememberance over an event that occurred some Four years ago, not - as Solatar so aptly demonstrated in his outburst - to promt sticking one's head in the sand shouting 'People are dead! They require sympathy! If you have thoughts to the contrary, you're a dirty, drugged-up Communist!'. I'm not saying that those deaths were not a tragedy, and - contrary to what your obviously think from your post - I do feel sympathy towards the victims and their friends & families...

...But the fact of the matter is, 3000 deaths is just not that much; it's not spectacular, it's not extraordinary, it's not even special. It's just 3000 Deaths. More than three thousand people die every day, many in much more horrific circumstances than those in Towers 1 & 2. Where are the silent vigils for them? Where are the monuments to those men, women and children who are being murdered, starving, dying of illness, or committing suicide even as I type this post? Nobody likes to think of it, of the sheer magnitude of Death that saturates this desolate rock.

I'm not saying we should just forget it, ignore any event such as this and just move on, that's not what i'm saying. Nor am I saying that it was anybody's fault. Nor am I *****ing - I have no idea where you got that one Solatar - at anything. I'm simply stating, matter-of-factly, that 9/11 was pretty damn unspectacular and meaningless, and the only reason it's made 'infamous' across the world, the phrase '9/11' forever ingrained into Western Culture, is that the victims were American. That is the truth, whether you choose to accept it or not.

*Dusts hands of thread*

[vyper]

Originally posted by WMCoolmon


Because even if those 10,000 were all innocents, soldiers, even terrorists (whatever your definition may be), it's important to remember that they all lived and died and try to learn from it.

Those 3000 Americans were killed without regard to whether or not they were responsible for whatever reasons the people that killed them had for killing them. They, as a group, were innocent. You may be able to pick out a few individuals and claim that they deserved it, but I don't think there's any rationalization that can cover every single individual death.

I don't quite understand your post WMC, what exactly are you saying IS the difference?