[ZmaN]

I'm sorry im being so annoying about this not-even-out-yet technology, but is crossfire ever gunna support Nvidia Nforce 4 Chipsets?  I juss read an article today sayin that Intel has struck a deal with Nvidia and Ati, that the Intel 975X will support Crossfire and SLI technology.  Theres also suttin i read sayin that the 955X Chipset supports crossfire, but still, is crossfire on an Nforce4 chipset motherboard EVER gunna be possible????

(sorry bout the details)

All these articles are on www.techreport.com

[Grey Wolf]

Most likely in the next generation, and same the other way (SLI on ATI chipsets). This generation? I doubt it.

[ZmaN]

Originally posted by Grey Wolf
Most likely in the next generation, and same the other way (SLI on ATI chipsets). This generation? I doubt it.

What do u mean "next generation"?

[Turnsky]

Originally posted by ZmaN


What do u mean "next generation"?

like the current top of the line cards are "this generation" the next top of the line cards would be next gen, and so on, so it'd be the for ati, the radeon x900-x950, and so on.

[Grey Wolf]

I was actually thinking nForce 5 (not the old theoretical NF5, which was rumoured to be the Intel chipset, but that's also NF4).

[phatosealpha]

It's theoretically possible, yes.  I wouldn't hold my breath though.

[phatosealpha]

Earlier today I was given information regarding ATI’s upcoming Crossfire technology that, at first, I passed off as so ridiculous it couldn’t possibly be true. However, after having the information verified from several very reputable sources I’ve decided it would be a disservice to keep this information private

As many are aware by now, ATI’s Crossfire technology uses an external link to connect the Master and Slave cards together (it's sort of like a 3-headed dongle with DVI connectors at the ends). What’s not generally known is that the backbone for this setup is a Silicon Image SiL 1161 chip which is installed on the X8-series Master cards. The SiL 1161 is there to receive output passed over the external link from the Slave card in the Crossfire setup and pass it on to the Master card.

Sounds decent on paper and everything, but if you check out the specs for the 1161 on this page you will see that it is limited to single-link TMDS @ 165MHz. This means that the max 3D resolution for any X8-series Crossfire setup is 1600x1200 @ 60Hz. That means no high-res Crossfire gaming beyond 1600x1200, no 1600x1200 at a flicker free refresh rate, and no widescreen 1920x1200.

How can a technology so clearly aimed at enthusiast gamers have a limitation like this? High-resolution flicker free gaming is one of the primary benefits a multi-graphics setup like Crossfire should offer entusiasts but, somehow, ATI managed to mess that up completely.

http://www.rage3d.com/index.php?cat=75#newsid33828812


Wow.  I mean, jeeze, if this is true....well, that's pretty much kinda making the entire crossfire concept kind of pointless.

[CP5670]

Ouch. That is an absolutely ridiculous oversight by ATI's engineers if true. 60hz is basically unuseable on CRTs, so the effective max resolution there would be 1024x768 or 1280x960. This limitation means that a single card would effectively be better than two of them; at least you can use some decent resolutions in older games. This seems too crazy too be true, but Rage3D is after all an ATI fansite, so I don't know what to make of it.

[ZmaN]

unfortunatly, its not juss rage3d, the inquirer also has that same information, i got the link from legionhardware.com....


heres the link Crossfire Limited to 1600x1200@60Hz


This really sucks, i wanted to go crossfire, but now when i see this, im not too sure about ati anymore......

[Grey Wolf]

I don't honestly expect anything good from ATi until the R580s start coming out. They're going through the equivalent of nVidia's FX period.

[Descenterace]

And here we see why I'm buying a GeForce 7 card this year: ATI have become complacent, believing that because games don't require X there's no market for X.

Bull****. People buy high-end graphics cards to show off. Or to just be secure in knowing they have an uber system. Either way, there's always a market for the latest tech.

[Styxx]

Well, I don't know about ATIs plans for future cards, but nVidias plans - as outlined by one of the architects responsible for the 6800 and 7800 series, who's from my university and is frequently around on our Computer Graphics Group activities - is to improve functionality relatively slowly, since they consider that for actual graphics most of the needs are already implemented (most of the proposed changes on future GPUs would be for general purpose use of GPUs, an area that's growing fast), but to scale the hell out of the architecture.

He said that their latest chip architecture setup (the 7800) is built in such a way that they can upscale it (by adding more vertex and fragment shaders inside it) with virtually no limits - it may end up needing a ridiculous silicon area, but the performance gain is guaranteed. Their internal policy is to double the performance every 18 months, and from what he says, their performance gain seems to be guaranteed for the next few cycles at least. It's a very stable architecture too, so ATI will have quite a run for its money to keep on par, I think.

[CP5670]

There are more reports of this starting to filter out now.
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=26228

What on earth were they thinking? They will lose out on half their target market due to this limitation.

Oh well, I was never really a potential buyer for this tech anyway.

[Grey Wolf]

Crossfire and SLI are ultimately a waste of money anyway, so it doesn't really matter that much. I always favored VIA boards, myself, and those are incompatible with both techs.

[ZmaN]

well, ive decided to buy an ATI in the near future.  despite the fact that their multi gpu solution is lame, im going with them because of these reasons.  1) for my price range, ATI is putting out better cards than nvidia in the price range (150-200 bucks),     2) Im not planning on going crossfire or sli, since its just tooo expensive.  Crossfire's cheapest setup is gunna cost, well id say about $320 (An X800GT and a master card), and sli's cheapest setup is about $300 bucks (two 6600GT's).  For the performence gain, its not that worth it.  Your better off goin out and buying one card instead of 2 for an sli setup, since any multi gpu solution is gunna suck up twice the power (about 60-90 watts per card, times 2 equals 120-180 watts)  thats a LOT of extra power, you also need a good power supply to handle all of it so buying a really sweet card is more worth it, since its cost you more money in other areas of the pc..... any opinions?

[Grey Wolf]

Capitalization and punctuation your friends.

Other than that, intelligent move ignoring the multiple card setups. Given the cards you're looking at, make sure you have a PSU with a decent +12v rail and at least 350W total, preferably closer to 400W or more. As for the ATi vs. nVidia thing, performance-wise they're basically identical. The only difference is nVidia is doing a bit better in standards compliance. Personally, I prefer nVidia, but that's really your choice, and go for what you're comfortable with.

[CP5670]

I think SLI might have been worth it if you got at least 80% extra performance in every game, but that's rarely the case even at GPU limited settings. And there are still some games like Far Cry that could really use more performance but don't benefit from SLI at all.

That being said, I have an SLI setup. Guess what cards it uses.

[Styxx]

Well, the thing is that the driver is solely responsible for the whole task allocation between the GPUs, so it follows that in some cases you won't have nearly the performance gain that's expected. When they give control to the programmer, and gamehouses start to churn out games with direct SLI support, you can expect dramatic increases in performance.

[ZmaN]

yea.... my speculations are that the performence gain you see on crossfire and sli setups are, well.......  Those results come under perfect conditions, which is impossible for the average consumer.  Oh and can sum1 give me some help?  I need to know the good power supply brands....  I am looking at aspire cases on newegg, and the power supplies seem decent enough....  They're all set at at LEAST 450 watt, and i am thinking about maybe a 500 wat O(is that worth it or not?).  Anyway, help on that topic would be nice.  thanks guys, l8r.... ZmaN

P.S. oh hbey cp, what cards does ur sli setup use anyway?

[Grey Wolf]

Antec, Cooler Master, Fortron Power Soruce, etc.
Use brand-name PSUs.