Author Topic: Typhoon Beta  (Read 5764 times)

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Offline StratComm

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Now see, I have the opposite take on that.  Having only one completed version of a HTL ship is definitely the way to go.  I don't want to have to chase down the proper model for each and every campaign that I play, nor do I want them morphing from one campaign to the next.  My only gripe with GE's Orion, for instance, was that it used a very not-fitting texture (the cargo/cruiser tile) but now that it's been replaced by a version that matches in color I firmly believe it should be the official one.  The same goes with any ship.  And having two look-alike ships in the fleet is completely unnecessary (thank Lightspeed for differentiating between the Fenris/Leviathan and Cain/Lilith) so unless you intend to replace a stock "low poly" mesh with yours don't make them look the same.  I'll stand pretty firmly by that.  Were this "Typhoon" a Typhon with improved geometry but still a Typhon, then the same would apply here.  But we don't really need one that's just a tweak different but no better.
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Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

 
No matter how "good" anyone HTLs the Orion, Typhon, ANYTHING, SOMEONE will find something wrong with it and the community will be clawing each other's throats out over it. Better sometimes to allow people to pick and choose what they want than give them a compromise they don't entirely like.

 

Offline TrashMan

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Stratt Comm, don't get the wrong impression here. I might be fast on the keyboard, but I guess that's mostly my temperamtent (I'm a dalmatian...)

Anway, you are one of the best modelers out here and I do have great respect for you and your work and I do take note of what you say (of what anyone sez actually). But there are instances where our oppinions clash..
Many things such as design, use of detail and similiar things are debatable and are based on ones' experiences and preferences..
And when such things happen I tend to value my own oppinnion above yours or anyone elses for that matter...which is quite normal naturally..
Or would you scrap a ship you spent a lot of time working on and you really like just becouse I said it's not worth a dime?

To you this BETA (I can't stress this fact enough) is a dismal faliure and something that should never have been done in the first place. To me it is not - I need a typhon sucesor for Chapter 3 of my campaign to replace the old one (thus there won't be 2 similar ships in the fleet).

that siad, if you think you can improve it I ask you to try. I never hid the fact that I'm not yet as good with shivan and vasudan models as I am with terran ones and any help in finishing this thing is welecomed.
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Offline aldo_14

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Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
No, it's becose I can't rember those 2-3 people EVER liking anything I did (and  I've been here a lot and did a lot).

So when I get the feeling that someone is allways bashing my work, regardless of what I do I mostly ignore them (not in teh literal meaning - I allways read what they have to say  as even a broken clock is right two times a day, but when I feel the critics are misplaced or aren't constructive - I simply purge them from my memory)


I don't like anything I've ever done, let alone you or anyone elses' work.  The reason I'm critical, is I know how helpful that - externally or internally - is to the learning process.

With the bulk of your designs, yes, I find them bland, derivative, unoriginal and repretively mapped.  But I don't say so for the most part, as they're your own perosnal designs.  However, when it comes to a design line based off of the Volition canon, then I think everyone here can make fair judgement.

 Your Typhoon takes the distinguishing features and 'alienness' of the Typhons' design - and smoothes over it, losing a lot what made the Typhon memorable in the first place. And as such it exists in some sort of purgatory between originality  - which it plainly isn't - and actually looking like either the Typhon or a ship in the same design scheme.

 I've done the same; one of my dumped models was more or less a Typhon with 4 rather than 2 arms (although still more differentiated from this)

So I feel I can fairly cast judgement based upon my own opinions.

  

Offline Black Wolf

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Originally posted by TrashMan
(I'm a dalmatian...)


What the...
TWISTED INFINITIES · SECTORGAME· FRONTLINES
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Offline aldo_14

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Originally posted by Black Wolf


What the...


Veers between black and white, I presume.

 

Offline karajorma

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I took it to mean that he spent ages licking his balls and hanging around with firemen :p
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Offline Galemp

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Uh, yeah. I think the point of all this discussion, Trashie, is that your model is less detailed than the original while taking up more polies and looking not as good, while still being too similar to tell the difference between the Typhoon and Typhon.

We can't see why anyone would choose your model over the Volition one except that it's different, and there's already a wealth of Vasudan destroyers that are not only different, but creatively designed and well crafted. If you can bring that model up to par with the offical version and make it distinct enough that we can accept it as a new class, then fine. If you want to use if in your campaign as-is and don't give a hoot about our opinions, that's your opinion.

But if we're telling you what that we don't like your model and tell you why, and what you could do to fix it, that's feedback and constructive criticism, and is the main reason why this board exists. If it's a BETA then obviously you feel it's unfinished and needs some work; that's why I posted my heavy cruiser and asked for help.

We don't have to like it, but we experienced modelers (like me, Aldo, Nico, Stratt and others) are somewhat demanding of ourselves. Aldo 'dumps' models better than most of us will make in our careers, and Nico's been known to throw out weeks of texturing work because he wasn't satisfied with it. Me, I take my crappy models and donate them to Inferno. :D If you like your model then use it, but heed our comments. You're one of the most productive modelers on the boards, TrashMan, and nobody can complain about that.

Oh, and Gregster: Chill out. We're not opposed to Variety, we're opposed to lots of work going into something not many people are going to think is worth downloading. We're not discouraging anyone from making a reskin of a ship and calling it new; some really great mods have been done that way. But we like to see creativity and when something's still in the oven, we like to give feedback so it can still be worked on before all the effort goes into making it gameworthy.
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Offline TrashMan

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a) it's not a re-skin or a edit of hte original. It's made from scratch.

b)have you ever tried making a higher-poly typhon? It's a higly unrewarding model, for regardless of how many polys you throw at it it will only look smoother and not more detailed. A orion has lot's of place for grebbling, but vasudan designes - especialyl the typhoon - has place for none. The only place where you could possibly make good show of extra polies is the bridge and the engines. I could have made a lot of indents and some other crazy stuff (like on the Sobeks front) but if I did that there would probably be a horde of forumites with pitchforks and torches after me. :D

And what about hte constructive part? All I heard so far is "scrap it" or "make it more typhon-like" and that isn't realyl constructive. To me it looks typhon-like. Maby I'm missing something but you should explain to me the changes you would like me to make better...

Oh, juszt becouse I specificly said that I respect StrattComm doesn't mean i don't respect any of you you guys. Also's reputation is well known as is yours...
Erm..to tell the truth I can hardly recall any of Mik's models 8perhaps I'm mixing some of them) but hte 2-3 I can were superb...

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Offline Galemp

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Quote
Originally posted by TrashMan
b)have you ever tried making a higher-poly typhon? It's a higly unrewarding model, for regardless of how many polys you throw at it it will only look smoother and not more detailed. A orion has lot's of place for grebbling, but vasudan designes - especialyl the typhoon - has place for none. The only place where you could possibly make good show of extra polies is the bridge and the engines. I could have made a lot of indents and some other crazy stuff (like on the Sobeks front) but if I did that there would probably be a horde of forumites with pitchforks and torches after me. :D


I've been considering some techniques, as a matter of fact. I may actually try them out now that the issue's come up.

I'd also like to compliment you on your miner. That's a great job you've done; it looks like a real spaceship without really repeating itself. The way you have the tubes/brackets attached to the containers is really great, and you've used the tile textures extremely effectively on the geometry. :yes::yes2: on that ship, mate.
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Offline StratComm

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If you'll recall, I do have pretty good experience with medium-poly Vasudan ships.  If done properly, the Typhon could be VERY rewarding; it's doing it well that's the trouble.  I've got some ideas on how it could be done, but lack the time to try to take you up on that challenge.

Anyway, the point wouldn't be to add crazy indents or random stuff that wasn't there before.  The Orion is a bit of an exception since it has textures that insinuate random greebling everywhere (and Bob does that particularly well) but overall you just want to accentuate the detail that's already in the model.  The HTL fighters are the best examples; look closely at Raa's Ares or Serepis, or his high-poly Sobek, or at Nico's Perseus.  Those models added nothing to the original that wasn't there before (albeit in textures only) and that's the true definition of making a high-poly model.  There are exceptions; the Hecate is to a degree as its texturing is criminally non-descript, but that's where the ability to take a little liberty with the design comes in.  With the Typhon, the best place to start adding detail would be the engine pods and fins, the bridge, the fighterbay (maybe), and the fins on the top and bottom.  And smoothing the hull of course, but that has to be done without changing its profile more than the slightest bit.  That, along with dropping the few potential points of detail that were in the original Typhon, is why I personally am not fond of your version of it
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Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

 

Offline WeatherOp

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Quote
Originally posted by StratComm
\
Anyway, th'point wouldn't be t'add crazy indents or random stuff that wasn't thar before.  The Orion be a bit o' an exception since it has textures that insinuate random greeblin' everywhere (and Bob does that particularly well) but overall ye just want t'accentuate th'detail that's already in th'model.  The HTL fighters are th'best examples; look closely at Raa's Ares or Serepis, or his high-poly Sobek, or at Nico's Perseus.  Those models added nothin' t'the original that wasn't thar before (albeit in textures only) an' that's th'true definition o' makin' a high-poly model.\



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Offline TrashMan

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Right Strattie my boy..I'll give it try.. I was thingking on working on the engines and the bridge some more anywayz...

But should I go after turning into a normal typhon, or continuning with this, or make 2 version and do both?
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Offline StratComm

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If you can fix the side profile, I'd strongly encourage you to try your hand at proper HTL treatment.  However, you'd have to downgrade the turret count back to standard if you want it to ever see wide use.  For what you want to use it for, I'd fix the side profile to re-introduce the vertical variation anyway.  It's really got the most potential as a carrier variant of the Typhon hull, if you make enough changes to properly preserve the lineage but still want the proportions bigger or different or want the turret count higher, that will allow you plenty of compromise.  I'm actually strongly considering giving the Typhon a go for HTL-izing sometime anyway, and I'd hate to have truely duplicated work.
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Last edited by StratComm on 08-23-2027 at 08:34 PM

 

Offline Woolie Wool

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Originally posted by Trivial Psychic
There's an even higher detailed concept image, as part of the box art for FS1.  Its a side profile shot.

That's a retexturing of the original model.
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Offline Trivial Psychic

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Maybe so, but it provides more details that a modeler can draw on, rather than trying to draw them out of the existing tiled textures.
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