Author Topic: FS3?  (Read 23840 times)

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Offline Su-tehp

  • Devil in the Deep Blue
  • 29
TDM/JM, Fighteer and I just noticed something. You mentioned in your outline that the Capella supernova expelled a huge cloud of radioactive gas throughout GTVA space, poisoning severl Terran and Vasudan planets, forcing the populations underground.

There's a problem with that: this radioactivity would only spread through space at less than the speed of light, so the radiation wouldn't travel very far. If FS2.9 takes place only 6 years after FS2, then the absolute maximum the radioactivity could travel is 6 light-years. Considering the distances between stars, the radioactivity wouldn't be able to affect any other GTVA planets.

This isn't a huge deal in terms of the FS2.9 story, but you'll have to change Alpha 1/the player's first personal log entry accordingly. I guess we can just say the GTVA's economy crashed when Capella was destroyed.

Just look at the World Trade Center. While the U.S. and world economies were already in a downturn, the destruction of the WTC, containing offices of many different worldwide businesses, made the economy much worse off than it would have been. It could be the same effect with Capella; losing an entire solar system, with all of its resources, could cause a similar economic downturn for the GTVA, making Terran-Vasudan society "meaner and harder in the process," as you stated in Alpha 1's personal log entry.

------------------
FRED Zone's Grammar editor/ FS history moderator
Former member of TCA
Member in good standing of 99th Skulls
Honorary member of TCS and UGC

"I created your civilization...now I will destroy it!"
--Ra, the Sun God
Creator of the Devil and the Deep Blue campaign

Elf #1: "I'm a busy elf. I've got places to go, people to act superior to and elder-than-thou attitudes to express."
Elf #2: "Oh, I know! People seem to think it's easy to perpetuate these Tolkein-esque stereotypes of haughty elves, but in reality it's very hard work."
--Elf #1 and 2, Episode 300: The House Always Wins, 8-Bit Theatre

"Let´s face it, we Freespace players may not be the most sophisticated of gaming freaks, but we do know enough to recognize a heap of steaming crap when it´s right in front of us."
--Su-tehp, while posting on the DatDB internal forum

"You misunderstand me, Ambassador. I said I had decapitated the Palestinian terrorists. I never said anything about killing them."
--Laivindil Mirimonion, Nexus of the Nameless

 

Offline Nico

  • Venom
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  • 212
Big difference tho: the towers were an economic center, Capella is said to be a lesser system. I don't think Capella itself would disrupt economy. It would be the hordes of refugees, the real trouble( tho a couple of planets could host them without much trouble I suppose).
SCREW CANON!

 
You're forgetting about the disruption to trade routes from the change in node geometry as a result from the nova.

------------------
I told you that It would be done by November, well, mostly anyway...
I told you that It would be done by November, well, mostly anyway...

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Offline Su-tehp

  • Devil in the Deep Blue
  • 29
 
Quote
Originally posted by jonskowitz:
You're forgetting about the disruption to trade routes from the change in node geometry as a result from the nova.

Change in node geometry as a result of the nova? Where in the name of God's infinite Universe did THAT come from? That was NEVER in any official FS canon!

And Venom, Capella wasn't a lesser system. Petrarch refers to it as being a heavily populated system in one of his command briefings. If it's heavily populated, it would have to be an economic powerhouse. 250 million people were living in Capella; they can't ALL be farmers!  

------------------
FRED Zone's Grammar editor/ FS history moderator
Former member of TCA
Member in good standing of 99th Skulls
Honorary member of TCS and UGC

"I created your civilization...now I will destroy it!"
--Ra, the Sun God
Creator of the Devil and the Deep Blue campaign

Elf #1: "I'm a busy elf. I've got places to go, people to act superior to and elder-than-thou attitudes to express."
Elf #2: "Oh, I know! People seem to think it's easy to perpetuate these Tolkein-esque stereotypes of haughty elves, but in reality it's very hard work."
--Elf #1 and 2, Episode 300: The House Always Wins, 8-Bit Theatre

"Let´s face it, we Freespace players may not be the most sophisticated of gaming freaks, but we do know enough to recognize a heap of steaming crap when it´s right in front of us."
--Su-tehp, while posting on the DatDB internal forum

"You misunderstand me, Ambassador. I said I had decapitated the Palestinian terrorists. I never said anything about killing them."
--Laivindil Mirimonion, Nexus of the Nameless

 

Offline aldo_14

  • Gunnery Control
  • 213
 
Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp:
Change in node geometry as a result of the nova? Where in the name of God's infinite Universe did THAT come from? That was NEVER in any official FS canon!

And Venom, Capella wasn't a lesser system. Petrarch refers to it as being a heavily populated system in one of his command briefings. If it's heavily populated, it would have to be an economic powerhouse. 250 million people were living in Capella; they can't ALL be farmers!  

Wonder what the effect of a massive gravitational shift like that would be, anyway.... combined with the artificial destabilisation of the exisitng nodes with Meson bombs.  It could have a 'domino effect'.


 

Offline joek

  • Heh heh... not funny.
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Quote
Originally posted by Ace:
...and I highly doubt "galactic nodes" exist.

Why not? If you can connect the vast distances between stars with subspace nodes, then why not the even vaster distances between galaxies (with nodes created by even more gravity like galactic black holes)? Besides, having galactic nodes gives a nice ending to my campaign, and it could mean that Shivans occupy most of the universe rather than most of our galaxy (oops, I've said too much).  

 
Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp:
If FS2.9 takes place only 6 years after FS2, then the absolute maximum the radioactivity could travel is 6 light-years. Considering the distances between stars, the radioactivity wouldn't be able to affect any other GTVA planets.

I've thought about that before, and it would be nice to make a nodemap using stars in their actual positions relative to each other, that way you could see how far Capella is in light years from its nearest node-neighbor and its nearest physical neighbor.

As the radiation (which would also consist of gamma rays and x-rays so some would travel at light speed) expands, I can imagine that the GTVA could also evacuate people from systems closer to Capella to systems farther from it (like isn't Deneb very far away).

 
Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp:
Change in node geometry as a result of the nova? Where in the name of God's infinite Universe did THAT come from? That was NEVER in any official FS canon!

Again, why not? One, it allows us to think up of more reasons why the Shivans would want to destroy Capella (example). Two, if gravity and subspace nodes are related, then something has to happen when one star's gravity suddenly changes dramatically. I'm trying to think of how to describe this, so I'll pull in more text from before:

 
Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp:
And like any bubble in boiling liquid, the vast majority of these (micro)nodes pop/destabilize in only a few nanoseconds, while only a small handful (AKA "stable/regular" jump nodes) stabilize for centuries or millenia (as per the "Subspace" entry in the FS2 Technical database).

Yes, think about Jupiter. Most could formations come and go, but the Great Red Spot has remained for centuries. It's all in the interactions of the clouds, winds, gases, heat, everything.

So, for all the stellular nodes in a galaxy, it's the same. Stable nodes form and stay stable, but if you throw a big disruption into the mix (a supernova/suddenly-changing-mass-of-a-star), it's going to affect the rest of the "node soup". Just like when Shoemaker-Levy crashed into Jupiter it changed and created new cloud patterns (think some nodes changing), but the Great Red Spot still remained (think other (stronger) nodes staying the same).

That's why I support the changing nodemap theory.  

Also (while I'm keeping all my thoughts to one post   )...

 
Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp:
I guess we can just say the GTVA's economy crashed when Capella was destroyed.

Yeah, I'm sure there would definately be some economic distress... but I wouldn't liken it to the WTC disaster. I'd think of it more like a World War. Lots of times, new discoveries are made out of necessity, like during a large war (think how WWII developed nuclear weapons). I'd think that Capella would be similar. Sure, you initially have to economic distress of jobs and resources being lost, millions of people having to find new homes and means of survival, etc.

But I think (at least in my wish-full thinking and for my campaign), that with this sudden influx of refugees, some new discoveries would be made because of the necessity of having to find ways of supporting all those refugees. Like in Frederik Pohl's "Mining The Oort", they're terraforming Mars so they can farm it to create more food for the growing population. But then that endeavor is going to be cut short because someone developed a way of growing plants inside of greenhouse-space-stations. I don't know what the GTVA's state of technology is in FS2 in regards to farming, but I can imagine that if they didn't have techniques like space-bound greenhouses, after Capella they might have the need to develop them.

So, after an initial economic downturn, new discoveries could come about which could then give the GTVA an economic boom.  

Joe.

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No, he's not back for real, just popping his head in to say "hello" while on break from classes.

 

Offline Su-tehp

  • Devil in the Deep Blue
  • 29
 
Quote
Originally posted by joek:
But I think (at least in my wish-full thinking and for my campaign), that with this sudden influx of refugees, some new discoveries would be made because of the necessity of having to find ways of supporting all those refugees. Like in Frederik Pohl's "Mining The Oort", they're terraforming Mars so they can farm it to create more food for the growing population. But then that endeavor is going to be cut short because someone developed a way of growing plants inside of greenhouse-space-stations. I don't know what the GTVA's state of technology is in FS2 in regards to farming, but I can imagine that if they didn't have techniques like space-bound greenhouses, after Capella they might have the need to develop them.

So, after an initial economic downturn, new discoveries could come about which could then give the GTVA an economic boom.    

Joe.

Joe, this thread isn't about your campaign, it's about Ascraeus' FS3 campaign. All the ideas I'm posting here have to do with his outline, not anyone else's campaign. All this talk and speculation about galatic nodes, shifting gravity altering the galatic node map and such is all very entertaining and infomative, but this particular post concerns Ascraeus' ideas for his FS3 campaign. I'd much rather leave wild (and non-relevant) speculation out of this thread. It would be more appropriate to have it in a different thread.

The talk of altering the galatic node map is particularly inappropriate (at least it seems that way to me...) because Ascraeus already designed a map for FS2.9 (the link for it is at the beginning of this thread)and there is not a single hint that any alteration of the node map occurred.

As for the economic recovery idea, well, the BEL campaign also had that and Ascraeus decided he didn't want to have that idea in his story long ago.

My speculations and ideas are posted here to stay in line with his outline. If I find any inconsistencies in his outline (like the radiation thing not being able to travel so far that it would affect all of GTVA space because all natural phenomona can only travel at less than the speed of light), then I post here with ideas of how he can make everything plausible and consistent with his story ideas. Since Ascraeus' radiation idea can't plausibly be responsible for the GTVA economic downturn in his story, I tried to post a different rationale for the downturn (namely the loss of resources from Capella). Arguing/speculating why the GTVA didn't suffer a downturn in the first place doesn't really help Ascraeus develop his story, which is what we're trying to do in this thread.

(Apologies for the harsh tone; it's been a rough month.)

------------------
FRED Zone's Grammar editor/ FS history moderator
Former member of TCA
Member in good standing of 99th Skulls
Honorary member of TCS and UGC

"I created your civilization...now I will destroy it!"
--Ra, the Sun God


[This message has been edited by Su-tehp (edited 11-12-2001).]
Creator of the Devil and the Deep Blue campaign

Elf #1: "I'm a busy elf. I've got places to go, people to act superior to and elder-than-thou attitudes to express."
Elf #2: "Oh, I know! People seem to think it's easy to perpetuate these Tolkein-esque stereotypes of haughty elves, but in reality it's very hard work."
--Elf #1 and 2, Episode 300: The House Always Wins, 8-Bit Theatre

"Let´s face it, we Freespace players may not be the most sophisticated of gaming freaks, but we do know enough to recognize a heap of steaming crap when it´s right in front of us."
--Su-tehp, while posting on the DatDB internal forum

"You misunderstand me, Ambassador. I said I had decapitated the Palestinian terrorists. I never said anything about killing them."
--Laivindil Mirimonion, Nexus of the Nameless

 

Offline TDM/JM

  • 24
 
Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp:
TDM/JM, Fighteer and I just noticed something. You mentioned in your outline that the Capella supernova expelled a huge cloud of radioactive gas throughout GTVA space, poisoning severl Terran and Vasudan planets, forcing the populations underground.

There's a problem with that: this radioactivity would only spread through space at less than the speed of light, so the radiation wouldn't travel very far. If FS2.9 takes place only 6 years after FS2, then the absolute maximum the radioactivity could travel is 6 light-years. Considering the distances between stars, the radioactivity wouldn't be able to affect any other GTVA planets.

*Ahem*. Out of town, wasn't around for awhile. Su-tehp, you have a good point. Up to a point. We'd noticed this one before -- but the idea of a Shivan "leave-behind" economic and social superweapon to severely damage the GTVA was too good to pass up. So here's the explanation -- but you're right -- the draft intro screen didn't make it clear.

(1) Some classes of neutrinos show possible FTL characteristics. So there would be three wave fronts in the Capella supernovae: FTL neutrinos, C-velocity radiatiation, and much slower debris, such as excited plasmas and ionized gas. However, the neutrino front would have to be *very* densely packed. That's possible in a supernovae phenomenon, but only out to a limited number of light years. So we're thinking that there would be immediate short-term damage to nearby systems, and then another, sustained hammerblow to more distant systems in 20 or thirty years. (Which means . . . . the GTVA is *doomed*, and all the possbilities for drama that brings.)

(2) On distances -- I've always assumed "shrunken parsecs" in the FS universe -- otherwise the two original games wouldn't have made much sense. If you try to match the characteristics of known stellar systems to "V-canon," you'll run into a few problems -- as you and others have observed. Basically we're talking about "known space" being a few dozen light years across. In that framework, the Capella phenomenon could devastate a fair amount of real estate in a dozen years. And, of course, the social and economic effects of the "coming hard times" in systems further away would be devastating -- we all know how the stock markets react, don't we?  (Well, so did the Shivans, apparently.)

Things progress, and it looks like something on this outline is being done. The folks who are showing an interest want some confidentiality -- I guess they've been burned in the past by publicity. But there are detail changes as these sorts of issues are being worked out. I very much appreciate the comments being made in this thread -- everybody's been very helpful. May I pick your brains and ask for opinions in the future? I'd very much like to have a forum like this one to "run some ideas by." Thanks!

Ascraeus


 

Offline Su-tehp

  • Devil in the Deep Blue
  • 29
   
Quote
Originally posted by TDM/JM:
(1) Some classes of neutrinos show possible FTL characteristics. So there would be three wave fronts in the Capella supernovae: FTL neutrinos, C-velocity radiatiation, and much slower debris, such as excited plasmas and ionized gas. However, the neutrino front would have to be *very* densely packed. That's possible in a supernovae phenomenon, but only out to a limited number of light years. So we're thinking that there would be immediate short-term damage to nearby systems, and then another, sustained hammerblow to more distant systems in 20 or thirty years. (Which means . . . . the GTVA is *doomed*, and all the possbilities for drama that brings.)

Now that this has been explained, this makes sense. Damn, I didn't even know about the FTL neutrinos had even been theorized yet; you really DO learn something new every day!      

   
Quote
Originally posted by TDM/JM:
(2) On distances -- I've always assumed "shrunken parsecs" in the FS universe -- otherwise the two original games wouldn't have made much sense. If you try to match the characteristics of known stellar systems to "V-canon," you'll run into a few problems -- as you and others have observed. Basically we're talking about "known space" being a few dozen light years across. In that framework, the Capella phenomenon could devastate a fair amount of real estate in a dozen years. And, of course, the social and economic effects of the "coming hard times" in systems further away would be devastating -- we all know how the stock markets react, don't we?  (Well, so did the Shivans, apparently.)

Yeah, the [V] starmap isn't exactly what you would call a concession to realism     but that's neither here nor there. The "shrunken parsecs" thing is [V] canon, so we might as well stick with it for consistency's sake. This is a sci-fi game we're talking about here, after all. Despite my leanings towards sticking to realism (I was trained in the theatre as a contemporary realist actor), realism should take a back seat to [V] canon consistency here.

   
Quote
Originally posted by TDM/JM:
Things progress, and it looks like something on this outline is being done. The folks who are showing an interest want some confidentiality -- I guess they've been burned in the past by publicity. But there are detail changes as these sorts of issues are being worked out. I very much appreciate the comments being made in this thread -- everybody's been very helpful. May I pick your brains and ask for opinions in the future? I'd very much like to have a forum like this one to "run some ideas by." Thanks!

Ascraeus

Ascraeus, this is a significant favor you are asking us, one that cannot be granted lightly. I'm going to need  some time to think about this. Give me a moment, please.

*walks a few paces out of earshot, then proceeds to hop and dance in barely restrained glee*

*walks back to Ascraeus*

I've decided to accept your kind and generous offer.      

------------------
FRED Zone's Grammar editor/ FS history moderator
Former member of TCA
Member in good standing of 99th Skulls
Honorary member of TCS and UGC

"I created your civilization...now I will destroy it!"
--Ra, the Sun God

[This message has been edited by Su-tehp (edited 11-12-2001).]
Creator of the Devil and the Deep Blue campaign

Elf #1: "I'm a busy elf. I've got places to go, people to act superior to and elder-than-thou attitudes to express."
Elf #2: "Oh, I know! People seem to think it's easy to perpetuate these Tolkein-esque stereotypes of haughty elves, but in reality it's very hard work."
--Elf #1 and 2, Episode 300: The House Always Wins, 8-Bit Theatre

"Let´s face it, we Freespace players may not be the most sophisticated of gaming freaks, but we do know enough to recognize a heap of steaming crap when it´s right in front of us."
--Su-tehp, while posting on the DatDB internal forum

"You misunderstand me, Ambassador. I said I had decapitated the Palestinian terrorists. I never said anything about killing them."
--Laivindil Mirimonion, Nexus of the Nameless

 

Offline Shrike

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Quote
Originally posted by TDM/JM:
(1) Some classes of neutrinos show possible FTL characteristics. So there would be three wave fronts in the Capella supernovae: FTL neutrinos, C-velocity radiatiation, and much slower debris, such as excited plasmas and ionized gas. However, the neutrino front would have to be *very* densely packed. That's possible in a supernovae phenomenon, but only out to a limited number of light years. So we're thinking that there would be immediate short-term damage to nearby systems, and then another, sustained hammerblow to more distant systems in 20 or thirty years. (Which means . . . . the GTVA is *doomed*, and all the possbilities for drama that brings.)

Even if neutrinos can go FTL, they won't do anything other than cause a blip on neutrino detection gear over interstellar ranges.  My astronomy prof said that you'd receive a lethal dose of neutrino radiation at Jupiter's distance.  Even if he's off by a factor of 100, you're still looking at the neutrino wavefront being dissipated to effectively nothing by the time it reaches any other star.  The EM radiation from Capella is a different matter.  However, given that the FS2 Capella seemed to be some sort of main sequence G-type star, which cannot naturally go supernova, it is likely that it would be more akin to a 'mini-supernova' simply because it wouldn't have the mass of a true presupernova star.
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 

Offline Sandwich

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Quote
Originally posted by Shrike:
However, given that the FS2 Capella seemed to be some sort of main sequence G-type star, which cannot naturally go supernova, it is likely that it would be more akin to a 'mini-supernova' simply because it wouldn't have the mass of a true presupernova star.

But then when you consider that the star did go supernova...  


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Offline Shrike

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Quote
Originally posted by sandwich:
But then when you consider that the star did go supernova...  

I think you missed the point of my post.  A presupernova star has something like 8+ solar masses, a yellow star like Capella would probably have no more than about 1.5.  That's a big difference.
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 

Offline TDM/JM

  • 24
 
Quote
Originally posted by Shrike:
Even if neutrinos can go FTL, they won't do anything other than cause a blip on neutrino detection gear over interstellar ranges.  My astronomy prof said that you'd receive a lethal dose of neutrino radiation at Jupiter's distance.  Even if he's off by a factor of 100, you're still looking at the neutrino wavefront being dissipated to effectively nothing by the time it reaches any other star.  The EM radiation from Capella is a different matter.  However, given that the FS2 Capella seemed to be some sort of main sequence G-type star, which cannot naturally go supernova, it is likely that it would be more akin to a 'mini-supernova' simply because it wouldn't have the mass of a true presupernova star.

The last thing I'm going to do is get into a debate with your astronomy professor, especially when all I've got is a few different degrees in physics, history, and journalism. He/she knows the stuff, and I be an amateur by comparison.  

Some things, though:

(1) From what I've read, one of the proposals on FTL neutrinos indicates that increased energy profiles give both mass and intensity, which means that such a wave front would behave more along the lines of hard EM than "garden-variety" neutrinos. Enough for the scenario we're discussing here? Unknown, but not unthinkable. And as long as it's "unknown," it's fair game for SF.

(2) This gets into an interesting issue: in building campaigns or games, or writing SF, or whatever, how do you do the science? Do you play around a little, or do you stick religiously to What Is Known? If we're completely honest, there's very little about V-canon or FS that's scientific -- nobody's going to be hot-rodding through space in cool little fighters 300 years from now, unless, perhaps, we're imagining pilot-and-ship being the same bio-engineered organism, perhaps. Naw, it'll all be VR, by remote, and computer-managed. My take: take some chances, deviate from What Is Known occasionally and *carefully*, but be logical and coherent, and make it fun and interesting. All good SF follows that creed, even the hard stuff from Clarke, Benford, Bear, etc. So really what we we're arguing here, Shrike, is what's believable in the context of the game.

(3) Had an interesting discussion with a guy named Sandwich, and he sketched out the following idea: The Shivans opened a remote plasma-teched portal inside Capella's core, and another inside the core of an unknown, massive star. Net effect: mass and energy pour from the massive star into Capella's core, eventually creating conditions for collapse-rebound-detonation characteristics of a supernovae. So Capella *does* have the mass; the Shivans added it. Thoughts?

Ascraeus

 

Offline Shrike

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Well, the thing is, you can easily cover part 2 without having to appeal to out there ideas.  The destruction of Capella could very well result in a significant downturn in the GTVA's economy, and it also makes it more human, more believable when you don't always appeal to outside forces unless you have to.
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 

Offline Su-tehp

  • Devil in the Deep Blue
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Quote
Originally posted by TDM/JM:
(3) Had an interesting discussion with a guy named Sandwich, and he sketched out the following idea: The Shivans opened a remote plasma-teched portal inside Capella's core, and another inside the core of an unknown, massive star. Net effect: mass and energy pour from the massive star into Capella's core, eventually creating conditions for collapse-rebound-detonation characteristics of a supernovae. So Capella *does* have the mass; the Shivans added it. Thoughts?

Ascraeus

I'm not sure about this. The field that the juggernaut fleet created was rippling from the juggernauts to the Capella star. It seems simpler to say that the subspace field generated from the juggernaut fleet somehow "compressed" the star, thereby increasing its "mass" such that it would go supernova. I don't know if a further explanation of HOW the star went nova is needed, as opposed to WHY the Shivans made Capella go nova. And I think Ascraeus already has an idea about why the Shivans made Capella go nova.

Better to go with Occam's Razor: the simplest theory is the most likely to be true. Rather than go into a complicated pseudo-scientific explanation about "transporting stellar matter across thousands of light-years", we can just as easily say that the subspace flux generated by the juggernauts made the star go nova.

When the juggernauts finished generating their field, the glow around their ships "detonated". This suggests some kind of "critical mass detonation" rather than some sort of material transportation.

------------------
FRED Zone's Grammar editor/ FS history moderator
Former member of TCA
Member in good standing of 99th Skulls
Honorary member of TCS and UGC

"I created your civilization...now I will destroy it!"
--Ra, the Sun God


[This message has been edited by Su-tehp (edited 11-13-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Su-tehp (edited 11-13-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Su-tehp (edited 11-13-2001).]
Creator of the Devil and the Deep Blue campaign

Elf #1: "I'm a busy elf. I've got places to go, people to act superior to and elder-than-thou attitudes to express."
Elf #2: "Oh, I know! People seem to think it's easy to perpetuate these Tolkein-esque stereotypes of haughty elves, but in reality it's very hard work."
--Elf #1 and 2, Episode 300: The House Always Wins, 8-Bit Theatre

"Let´s face it, we Freespace players may not be the most sophisticated of gaming freaks, but we do know enough to recognize a heap of steaming crap when it´s right in front of us."
--Su-tehp, while posting on the DatDB internal forum

"You misunderstand me, Ambassador. I said I had decapitated the Palestinian terrorists. I never said anything about killing them."
--Laivindil Mirimonion, Nexus of the Nameless

 

Offline Shrike

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But again, pumping solar masses worth of crap into the core of Capella doesn't fit with what we get from the missions.  There is no mention of increased gravitation, just some sort of subspace field.  What is more likely is that the Shivans were either drastically altering some physical constants in the star's core to cause a supernova, or were adding/subtracting large amounts of energy.
WE ARE HARD LIGHT PRODUCTIONS. YOU WILL LOWER YOUR FIREWALLS AND SURRENDER YOUR KEYBOARDS. WE WILL ADD YOUR INTELLECTUAL AND VERNACULAR DISTINCTIVENESS TO OUR OWN. YOUR FORUMS WILL ADAPT TO SERVICE US. RESISTANCE IS FUTILE.

 

Offline Su-tehp

  • Devil in the Deep Blue
  • 29
 
Quote
Originally posted by Shrike:
But again, pumping solar masses worth of crap into the core of Capella doesn't fit with what we get from the missions.  There is no mention of increased gravitation, just some sort of subspace field.  What is more likely is that the Shivans were either drastically altering some physical constants in the star's core to cause a supernova, or were adding/subtracting large amounts of energy.

Yeah, this is what I meant, but I was editing my post as Shrike posted this.
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Offline joek

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Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp:
Joe, this thread isn't about your campaign, it's about Ascraeus' FS3 campaign. All the ideas I'm posting here have to do with his outline, not anyone else's campaign. All this talk and speculation about galatic nodes, shifting gravity altering the galatic node map and such is all very entertaining and infomative, but this particular post concerns Ascraeus' ideas for his FS3 campaign. I'd much rather leave wild (and non-relevant) speculation out of this thread. It would be more appropriate to have it in a different thread.

Sorry about that, but it's only natural for topics to drift (especially when scientific topics are brought up and we all become theorists). But then that's why people like yourself need to bring it back on topic.

And yes, I do have a tendency to say "my campaign" too much. But it's not for me trying to pimp it (as I rarely get to work on it), but I just use it go give some backing to my theories/ideas. I mean if I mention an idea of mine, but I'm not willing to support my own idea in a campaign or anything, then who cares about my idea (you may say who cares anyway)?

Besides, isn't the point of thread discussion to throw ideas around? Maybe some ideas won't work for his campaign, but those ideas might give him or others new ideas.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp:
(Apologies for the harsh tone; it's been a rough month.)

No problem, I've been having a rough two months since I've been unemployed.

Now about the topic at hand... about the radiation vs. 6 years... I have another idea: why not change the date of the campaign to something greater than 6 years. I mean if you weigh in the amount of time for the scientists to figure out how to build a Knossos device, and then the amount of time to gather materials and build such a device (look how long it took to create the Colossus)... maybe 6 years is too soon after FS2?

Joe.
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Offline Sandwich

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Quote
Originally posted by TDM/JM:
...Net effect: mass and energy pour from the massive star into Capella's core, eventually creating conditions for collapse-rebound-detonation characteristics of a supernovae. So Capella *does* have the mass; the Shivans added it...

Clarification: My original theory was somewhat different, but it, too, was based on the idea that the Shivans wanted to transfer stellar matter via subspace. Ascraeus, you were the one to use that as a basis for this theory - which, I might add, is simpler than my theory...  

 
Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp:
Better to go with Occam's Razor: the simplest theory is the most likely to be true...

Occams Razor is an excellent guide to follow when searching for The Truth™, but that's not what we're looking for. We're looking for an explanation that 1) isn't off the wall, yet 2) is intruiging enough to be able to continue storylines from.

 
Quote
Originally posted by Su-tehp:
When the juggernauts finished generating their field, the glow around their ships "detonated". This suggests some kind of "critical mass detonation" rather than some sort of material transportation.

Not nessicarily - it could simply have been the SJ's completing the formation of a subspace node. Or, to hint at my theory, it could have been an emergency shutdown and escape... (Ascraeus - shhhhh.... )  

 
Quote
Originally posted by Shrike:
But again, pumping solar masses worth of crap into the core of Capella doesn't fit with what we get from the missions.  There is no mention of increased gravitation, just some sort of subspace field.  What is more likely is that the Shivans were either drastically altering some physical constants in the star's core to cause a supernova, or were adding/subtracting large amounts of energy.

Because of the nature of the game, I would have to agree here, but do you truly think that in a Real Life™ FS2 situation you would be informed of half as much as you know as the infamous Alpha 1, let alone being notified of changing gravitic levels!? No way.

Funny you mentioned subtracting (another oblique refernce to my theory  )... Does anyone know if a star could supernova if it had mass subtracted suddenly?


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Offline Ace

  • Truth of Babel
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Correction on a misconception in the thread: The node chart is designed to show how the sub-space node "network" is arranged, nothing more and nothing less. Relative travel times may also be within this framework, but this is not proven.

Alpha Centuari in the FS universe is still 4 lightyears away, no "compressed parsecs" or other odd phenomenon then the fact that no nodes lead directly to Sol.

So it stands that Capella's shockwave wavefront by the time this story concept would occur would have negligible effect on the GTVA within 6 years. (unless a GTVA star is within 6 lightyears from Capella)

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