Author Topic: Why Heaven wouldn't work  (Read 4932 times)

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Offline an0n

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Why Heaven wouldn't work
Because it's full of people.

It is impossible to have a paradise populated by mankind.

C'z you'd still be you. You'd still have your likes, your dislikes, your hates, your loves and these would be different from other people's.

So, in the infinite, eternal expanse of the great beyond, eventually you'd find someone who disagreed with you. And maybe they'd argue with you. Maybe they'd argue with you to the point that you both became rather annoyed; To the point where you'd start trying to get other people to take sides to determine, through the concept of popular opinion, which viewpoint was most right; To the point where you'd just created the first oppressed minority in the kingdom of Heaven; To the point where God came along to tell you which view was actually right.

So you'd then have an oppressed minority, shunned for their alternate opinion and a group of people whom had just been told they were most certainly wrong and basically ridiculed by God.

Congratulations, you've just introduced the first elements of resentment into paradise, you serpent.

And in a land of eternal paradise, you'd just proved that the people whom were given the same paradise, the same love, the same forgiveness and understanding by the most powerful being in the universe were wrong.

But if you're more right in the eyes of God, why should the wrong people be given the same as you even though they still refuse to acknowledge that you were right? Shouldn't they show some humility to you and God for being wrong? Shouldn't they be punished if they don't?

Congratulations, you've just introduced racism into paradise, you serpent.

But surely, if God is all-knowing and always right, then it must be right that they are afforded the same luxuries as you. Unless of course that they're wrong and God is simply humoring them. But if God is willing to tollerate the wrongs and stupidity of men, why not the wrongs and stupidity of your pal who you've not been able to find in Heaven? Why not the wrongs of all men? Surely if he can forgive one group for being wrong, he can forgive everyone. Why should anyone have to suffer if they can be shown the error of their ways and allowed into paradise? Maybe some people just can't learn. Maybe some people just don't deserve Heaven. But your pal never did anything wrong. He was a good, kind, nice guy. Though God must know best, so that's okay. If God thinks those people who are wrong deserve to get into Heaven and your pal doesn't then he must have a reason and he must be right......Or is he?

Congratulations, you've just introduced blasphemy to Heaven, you serpent.

What happened to all those other people you saw before? Could God have kicked them out for causing trouble? That's not right. Why can he forgive those other people who are wrong, but not your people who are wrong? That seems kind of unfair. It can't be right. It can't possibly be right. God must be wrong. He has to be wrong. But if he's wrong about this, what else has he been wrong about? Maybe you don't have to forgive them for being wrong, and it's because of them that your friends are gone, that the people you liked and who liked you were cast from Heaven. And as God himself says: Sinners are punished. Causing good people to be banished to Hell must be a sin. Even if it's not a sin, it's certainly wrong. So they have to be punished. You could punish them, but God would try and stop you, and you don't want to be cast into Hell.

You could tell other people about this. Maybe they'd be willing to help you, they could punish the others and when everything is over, we could talk to God and he could forgive them. He's big on that forgiveness stuff. Yes, that's what you can do, get everyone together and you can show the others the error of their ways then beg God for forgiveness. If he can be wrong then he's not all-knowing and maybe you can trick....No. Maybe you can convince him to let you stay. If everyone went and told him and begged him he'd have to let you stay, to forgive you. So that's what you'll do. Punish the others and beg God for forgiveness.

Congratulations, you've just introduced deceit, violence and war to Heaven.

But what if the others fight back? They could retaliate, hurt you, maybe even defeat you. No, you must get them kicked out of Heaven after you attack. Make God think they started it. He'll understand. You'll make him understand.

Congratulations, you've just introduced herecy, vanity and arrogance to Heaven.

You Serpent[/size]

It's about this time that you'd attack the others and all be kicked from Heaven.

And this, kids, is why Heaven wouldn't work.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2004, 05:15:24 am by 397 »
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
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Offline Fineus

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Why Heaven wouldn't work
Bored?

 
Why Heaven wouldn't work
You forgot the ', you serpent' on the last 2 lines.....

Wrote this yourself?
just another newbie without any modding, FREDding or real programming experience

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Offline an0n

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Why Heaven wouldn't work
No. I didn't.

And yes, I did.
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
~-=~!@!~=-~ : Nodewar.com

 

Offline Singh

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Why Heaven wouldn't work
It would work if it were something like the matrix......each person unto his own universe......
but then you'd get the problem of eventual boredom in the long run. that, and it isn't really practical. Better just to stick humanity on Earth and let them sort it out themselves :p
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Offline karajorma

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Why Heaven wouldn't work
I still think it ironic that eternal damnation supposedly awaits anyone who dares to question God's infinite love :D
Karajorma's Freespace FAQ. It's almost like asking me yourself.

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Why Heaven wouldn't work
the joys of being agnostic
The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal Name."
-Lao-Tzu

 

Offline jdjtcagle

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Why Heaven wouldn't work
:lol: Anon, you really think this is goig to change other people's views???  No!!!... only athiest views, which will cause a huge conflict and eventually flamewar... *zip*  ok, there's my suit, now where's my flamethrower again :p
« Last Edit: June 05, 2004, 07:25:17 am by 1472 »
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Offline diamondgeezer

Why Heaven wouldn't work
Saw a dude in a fantastic t-shirt the other day. Said simply "Christianity is supid. Give it up"

 

Offline Rictor

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Why Heaven wouldn't work
Quote
Originally posted by Kalfireth
Bored?

______________________________________

And you're forgetting one thing. Heaven doesn't function according to everyday rules. It is necessarily irrational and different than the everyday world we are used to. I mean, if you believe, despite all physical evidence, that there is a God and Heaven and all that, how much of a stretch is it to believe that it is a place where normal rules don't apply. And if normal rules don't apply, that makes perfection attainable.

If you have faith, which is almost by definition irrational belief, than you're not going to be rational about the quality of Heaven or of the people who inhabit it. So, you can't believe in Heaven but believe that it is a place where human sin and human weakness etc is present. Its a package deal.

Or if you don't believe in Heaven, then what Heaven is like is a moot point, to there.

 

Offline jdjtcagle

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Why Heaven wouldn't work
Even if it is stupid... it will help people. but, I'm not going to leave out it kills people also.  If you believe or not some people aren't going to feel the same way when they look at a t-shirt
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Offline jdjtcagle

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Why Heaven wouldn't work
Quote
Originally posted by Rictor

______________________________________

And you're forgetting one thing. Heaven doesn't function according to everyday rules. It is necessarily irrational and different than the everyday world we are used to. I mean, if you believe, despite all physical evidence, that there is a God and Heaven and all that, how much of a stretch is it to believe that it is a place where normal rules don't apply. And if normal rules don't apply, that makes perfection attainable.

If you have faith, which is almost by definition irrational belief, than you're not going to be rational about the quality of Heaven or of the people who inhabit it. So, you can't believe in Heaven but believe that it is a place where human sin and human weakness etc is present. Its a package deal.

Or if you don't believe in Heaven, then what Heaven is like is a moot point, to there.


Well when you think about it. There still has to be sin and imperfection in Heaven. :nod: I agree
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Offline phreak

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Why Heaven wouldn't work
didn't you ever watch southpark?

only mormons and saddam hussein go to heaven
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Why Heaven wouldn't work
who says heaven is particularily definable in the first place?
who says there is such a thing as heaven? maybe its just the continuation of thought after death, no white clouds in the sky and such
maybe heaven is what you make of it, your own personal paradise.
The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal Name."
-Lao-Tzu

 

Offline jdjtcagle

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Why Heaven wouldn't work
Yes... But you can't talk to them... They'll laugh, say that it completely defies logic, and kick your god in the face...  That's what you can expect from this place...
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Offline an0n

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Why Heaven wouldn't work
I'm not debating the existence of Heaven, it's purpose, goals or chemical fricking make-up.

I'm saying that if you consider the dynamics of the Heaven ideal sold by most major religions, it doesn't make sense and simply wouldn't work.

You want to believe in a personal paradise, fine, believe in that.

But if you want to believe you can interact with friends and loved ones you're a ****ing fool. Because people are sinners and biggots by nature, so it'd collapse the entire goddamn concept.
"I.....don't.....CARE!!!!!" ---- an0n
"an0n's right. He's crazy, an asshole, not to be trusted, rarely to be taken seriously, and never to be allowed near your mother. But, he's got a knack for being right. In the worst possible way he can find." ---- Yuppygoat
~-=~!@!~=-~ : Nodewar.com

 

Offline jdjtcagle

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Why Heaven wouldn't work
True very very true Anon... but then again, no one is a fool, just very ignorant on the whole subject of heaven and what it is, how people are alowed to act and will act...But, God's plan didn't go well on Earth either...
"Brings a tear of nostalgia to my eye" -Flipside
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Offline Rictor

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Why Heaven wouldn't work
Quote
Originally posted by an0n
I'm not debating the existence of Heaven, it's purpose, goals or chemical fricking make-up.

I'm saying that if you consider the dynamics of the Heaven ideal sold by most major religions, it doesn't make sense and simply wouldn't work.

You want to believe in a personal paradise, fine, believe in that.

But if you want to believe you can interact with friends and loved ones you're a ****ing fool. Because people are sinners and biggots by nature, so it'd collapse the entire goddamn concept.


It doesn't make sense to YOU, beacuse your function of logic. You dont buy into the concept of Heaven in the first place. But it makes perfect sense to a believer, because they have faith. Faith=anything is possible. If you believe in God and in Heaven, you also believe that those who ascend to Heaven and are in the presence of God are no longer sinners, and can get along just fine with one another.

So, it doesn't make sense from your point of view, but from a religious person's point of view, it does.

 

Offline jdjtcagle

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Why Heaven wouldn't work
And that is why this thread could only be created to flame other peoples believes and not to prove anything... except the you don't believe in heaven and tell everybody who does believe that they are just plain stupid...  Very well said Rictor, I have problems with explaining things the way I want them to come out
"Brings a tear of nostalgia to my eye" -Flipside
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I'm an Apostolic Christian (Acts: 2:38)
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Offline Liberator

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Why Heaven wouldn't work
an0n, Rictor you are both forgetting the key difference between Heaven and any other place you can conceive.

The physical presence of God

Unlike, say, the average Billy Graham revival meeting where the Spirit of God is present.  In Heaven, the physical presence of God ensures that there is no strife, hatred or other evil, sinful things because such things cannot exist in His presence.

So the rampant immorality and all the baggage that goes along with being human(hatred, lust, ect.) goes away and all that is left is what is good in you.  You're still you and can remember the other things but in God's presence you don't need any of that stuff anymore.
So as through a glass, and darkly
The age long strife I see
Where I fought in many guises,
Many names, but always me.

There are only 10 types of people in the world , those that understand binary and those that don't.